This is the full transcript for Episode #283 of the Wild Business Growth podcast featuring Katie Thomson – Baby Food Dietitian, Co-Founder of Square Baby. You can listen to the interview and learn more here. Please note: this transcript is not 100% accurate.
Katie Thomson 0:00
Keep trying. Keep trying that mustard.
Max Branstetter 0:17
A lot of mustard on that one! Thank you. Welcome back to the Wild Business Growth podcast. This is this is your place to hear from a new entrepreneur every single Wednesday morning who’s turning Wild ideas into Wild growth. I’m your host, Max Branstetter, Founder and Podcast Producer at MaxPodcasting. And you can email me at to save time with your high-quality podcast. This is episode 283. And today’s guest is Katie Thomson. Katie is the Co-Founder and CEO of Square Baby, one of my favorite geometric baby companies, who is of course a baby food company that provides 100% of your baby’s nutrition, as well as a wonderful system for allergen introduction and a great mix of flavors. Katie is a registered dietitian, she was the first ever Nutritionist at Starbucks never heard of them. And in this episode, we talked how she put the building blocks together for square baby, how taste works and what foods and taste complements complement each other and complements each other. And some of her favorite things to do all around the Pacific Northwest. It is KT, also known as Katie Thompson. Enjoyyyyyyy the showwwwwww! Aaaaalrightyyyyyy we’re here with Katie Thomson, Co-Founder and CEO of Square Baby who manufactures babies that have right angled No I’m just kidding. That was that was just awful. But I’m really, really cool company in the baby food and baby meal space. We’ll call it and beyond. Katie, thank you so much for joining us. How are you doing today?
Katie Thomson 2:18
Yeah, I’m doing great. Thanks so much for having me. Of course,
Max Branstetter 2:21
of course. And yeah, thank you again for coming on. Because otherwise, it just won’t be possible. But we’re gonna get to all things square baby. But before that, we’re gonna get to Starbucks, baby, which sounds like a single now we’ll get to Starbucks. You were the first ever nutritionist, new which I can’t pronounce nutritionist at Starbucks. Thank you. I try. There’s a lot SS and T’s. But how does one become the first ever nutritionist at Starbucks or Starbucks as people say?
Katie Thomson 2:53
Yeah, that’s good question. So first I got my master’s in nutrition at the University of Washington really thought that I would land myself in more of a clinical role, but had this opportunity for a three week contractor role. At Starbucks. It just turns out that the CEO had committed to having nutrition information on their website for the first time. You know, their first like nutrition brochures is way back and out. 20 years ago. 2004 Wow, that dates me
Max Branstetter 3:24
remember it like it was yesterday? I know. Honestly,
Katie Thomson 3:29
I turned that three week contractor role into a six year job. They’re really showing the team what a dietitian could do you know, beyond crunching the numbers and telling them how many calories are in each iteration of beverages and sizes and pumps of syrups so took a more strategic role on it the company and had the right of a lifetime.
Max Branstetter 3:52
High energy work environment. Yeah, I know you did so many things there. What’s what’s an aspect of your time it’s it star bees, I’ll just say that the entire time. Jump off, but that you’re most proud of,
Katie Thomson 4:06
I think I think I realized the kind of entrepreneurial spirit that I had, I’ve always been a very passionate person. So no one will ever say I’m not passionate about the things that I’m doing. I think that passion really helped me to drive new initiatives through a very big company. Eventually that’s sort of what gave me the guts to start square baby but as I mentioned going from a dietician that was working more so on the quality assurance side and the charge of the nutrition facts panels and really more so the data. As I started taking on more strategic role in the company, it was creating the first ingredient standards so across, you know, not only nationally but internationally removing artificial flavors and colors. This impacted hundreds of products. So this was no small feat, but to kind of put the put together or the business case for clean up the ingredients, offering healthier options, removing trans fats, these kinds of things that had a major impact on a very large company. But I think they understood that this wasn’t just a dietician coming in, you know, with our dietician hat on. But also thinking about the consumer and thinking about the trends and understanding the business opportunity in making these right decisions. So I think I was really proud of being such a young dietician and having this be my first job out of grad school thinking, first of all, holy smokes, anybody could have had any, you know, I felt highly under qualified for so many reasons, because you’re just, you know, so, so young and so green, but I think it was the energy and passion and drive to make big changes, we were able to do some great things.
Max Branstetter 5:48
That’s the most incredible, iconic branding pun I’ve ever heard so green, that you are just Starbucks to the core. It really sounds like the right of a lifetime, as you said, like working at such a global, iconic company, and we’ll set economic company, but that to a sense as well. How do you break into that culture and your your your ending a brand that is so well known, omnipresent, omnipotent, and we’ve had a debate about that in previous episodes. How do you step into like a brand new role there?
Katie Thomson 6:22
That’s really interesting. I think, you know, it was a stepwise approach, right? So it wasn’t just all of a sudden, this young dieticians coming in and going to, you know, give them strategic advice on new products, and, you know, potential M&A opportunities, or you know, what their retail or assortment should look like, and really some very big ideas and strategies, but it was more so, you know, showing them what I was capable of becoming the subject matter expert within the building on nutrition. And there were definitely you know, couldn’t have done this without the support of some key executives, who really believed in health and wellness, and the opportunity, you know, that Starbucks needed to take hold of this from a brand perspective. But also just, you know, it being the right thing to do, but what our customers were expecting of us so trickling down to that been, you know, you know, strategic business decision. But what was really interesting was thinking about on such a scale, even if you make really small changes, they can be really, really meaningful at such a large scale, right. So for example, we changed the default milk from a latte, right? If you just went up to the counter and said, I’d like a latte, it used to be whole milk, and we changed the default melt to 2%. So this was great from a saturated fat and calories perspective, it also actually improved. There, their their costs and their margins because the 2% milk was actually cheaper than then whole milk, right. And during this time, because we knew we’re getting the savings on the 2% Milk. We also argued to require all of our milk producers to become rBST free. So because Starbucks is one of the largest, if not the largest purchaser of milk in the country, we helped to change the milk supply because now these farmers and producers of milk were changing to meet Starbucks standards, but you know, it had a trickle down effect across the country. So really cool thing to be a part of,
Max Branstetter 8:21
did you say r b s t free? Oh, yes.
Katie Thomson 8:25
So this is the like, it’s a growth hormone. So back, so 20 years ago, this was a major part. So now this is much more, you know, in the normal way that our milk would be made from cows not treated with rBST growth hormone. So it was just it was thinking about, again, how can we use our scale for good, but also making sure that from a business perspective, it was something I could sell, you know, to the other business owners in the building. I
Max Branstetter 8:55
appreciate your attention to the R-E-S-P-E-C-T, that’s really kind of you. But the shout out my wife Dana, who is a diehard Starbucks fan, and she actually goes with everything she gets, that has milk in it, she goes with nonfat or skim milk, so she’ll appreciate your lowering of the percentage, the percentage is there.
Katie Thomson 9:17
I love that why helped to bring skinny latte so I don’t know she’s a skinny latte gal. But that was it’s so funny. But you think about when people go up to the line at Starbucks and they’re thinking about their order, we would call it line anxiety because they would go up to the counter and they’d say, I want to nonfat no whip 180 degrees to pumped it up vanilla, whatever. Right? And it was like they felt like they had so many things that they had to call out. So the skinny latte was the solution for those that wanted to have that nonfat noec sugar free, silly but
Max Branstetter 9:50
new acronyms and new terms all around and yeah, I know she rocks, the cold brew and an iced coffee as well. Let’s get a bit more of a shape that has the same size, length sides and angle. This is a geometry lesson, let’s get to square baby. So just really, really cool branding and company and niche and any sort of buzzword you want there. But I think it’s it’s awesome this space that you’ve stepped into and like really established yourself, you know, further and before we get to like this specific business, what is it about nutrition and being a dietitian, what is it about all this stuff that like, at some point in your life, you just kind of latched into like I, as you said, I am passionate about this stuff,
Katie Thomson 10:42
I have always been an athlete growing up and interested in nutrition actually thought I would be a pediatrician, so did a lot of volunteering during college, did the pre med route in undergrad and then decided to take on more of a focus on nutrition. So that’s when I got my master’s degree there. I just think it’s like, you know, so cliche, right. But if you find, you know, a job or a career and the thing that you’re most passionate about learning about reading about talking about helping with, you’ll never have to work a day in your life, right? So it’s, which is not true as an entrepreneur but I just think it’s follow what your you know, your true passions are because that’s where you’re gonna have the most energy to to persevere.
Max Branstetter 11:30
And here you are, you haven’t worked a day in your life. And here you are on entrepreneurship podcast. No, but um, so that’s kind of like the interest, the passion from that standpoint, but what what was the insight in terms of babies and what babies are actually consuming?
Katie Thomson 11:48
So I thought when I landed this job at Starbucks, I wasn’t going anywhere. I mean, this was a dream career, I was learning and growing so much, but 2008 had my first baby cruise the baby food aisle. And then essentially, it was like, WTF with baby food, why is no company helping me out? This is if I have a master’s in nutrition. And I find this shopping moment to be overwhelming to understand. How do I know that he’s gotten enough veggies and protein in a day and what’s really in this jar or this pouch? I felt like I had to, you know, I don’t know dig into every products ingredient statement to kind of better understand and do all of this research. And I thought, first of all, this is super overwhelming, and in what a critical, important nutritional milestone in their lives. And it seemed as though the leading players were just sort of phoning it in right? For decades, it was just or speced and Gerber and peas and carrots and their turkey dinner and it was fine. You either made your own baby food or you took the convenience of that baby food. And while I was working full time, I was basically leaving the house at seven and getting home at at 6am My baby went to bed at like 7pm like I did not have the time to be making my own baby food. Nor would I want to you know even though I enjoy cooking so much, that’s not the way I wanted to spend my my spare time, very often at least. So I really wanted to create a solution for parents. So that’s where this fire started in me. And in 2010 I left Starbucks to set out and solve what the solution for parents will look like.
Max Branstetter 13:26
So can you can you walk us through like what what emotions you’re feeling when you actually like step away from the place that you thought for a time you’re gonna spend like your whole career at?
Katie Thomson 13:38
Oh, God, first of all, I’ve never been asked that question. So I love it. Oh, no, thank you. Yeah, of course you’re thinking I must be crazy and I laughed when so 2010 May the stock price was down below $10 Because you left the President left I know the news got out and this whole thing was actually crazy this entire economic downturn you know fell right across but you know, just financially as a as a young family this was a crazy decision I was about to vest my into my fourth year you know, of stock and I mean, none of it made sense for a lot of reasons. But it made all of the sense for you know, where my passion lies and what I felt very compelled to do. Even sometimes I sort of wished that fire would go like just just kind of like leave me alone like let me just go on and and you know have a steady job with insurance and a great paycheck you know, and just you know, clock in and clock out and you know have a bit more of a stable known entity, but that’s not where every part of my being was telling me to go. So yeah, certainly it was not spy. I will say Now having the support of my husband who, you know has been behind me every moment of this helps a lot with square baby has his career has been an advertising. So he’s a writer, and campaign developer by trade. So he’s done Superbowl commercials and all that kind of stuff. But together we have really built this company with our bare hands. And so without the security of being able to do so with his his paycheck and his insurance, there’s no way we could have pulled this off. So certainly, it’s like, who walks away from, you know, the nutritionist at Starbucks role. But I just knew I had to give it a, give it a try.
Max Branstetter 15:37
Yeah, and let’s say I don’t want to throw this in your face. But when I was nutritionist at Starbucks, I was like, I was there for decades. So I had a lot more staying power. Now, you said, I think your model could be, don’t be there be square, because you want square after that. And here we are with geometry. Again, shout out the Pythagore Theorem. Anyway. Thank you, A squared plus B squared equals C squared for those watching at home. But Square Baby. I mean, as I hinted at before, like it’s beautiful branding, the packaging is beautiful, all the different colors like it’s like a just a wonderful like rainbow feel you get from from your foods and from the branding there. How did that start to come to life like once you decided to focus in this baby space.
Katie Thomson 16:25
So the reason behind Square Baby and Square Foods is that one of my biggest pain points for the baby food aisle was that so many of the products especially as a new pouches started to come on the market around 2008 910, we started to see a lot more fruit heavy unbalance and misleadingly marketed meals. So there’s obviously no problem with fruit with apples, etc. But when you feel as though as a parent, you’re choosing a meal that has all these healthy fats and veggies and protein and looks balanced based on the marketing of the product, you’re doing that parent and the baby a disservice by actually having it be very, very fruit heavy and sweet. And in fact, I found that many of the pouches have more sugar per ounce and a can of Coca-Cola. So again, not that fruits bad, it’s just a matter of if we’re training these little pallets and their first bites to grow up to be an adventurous eater. We cannot be drowning out every taste they have with these, you know, Uber sweet fruits. So what I did from a solution perspective, so why square baby Why square foods and how was I going to solve it. Instead, I wanted to take the guesswork out of giving your baby the right amount of the right foods, you know to help help them grow up. So I looked at the the recommendations from WIC and the Academy of Pediatrics and USDA and created 100% daily nutrition meal system. So we’re every meal is square and balanced. And in fact, every meal is veggie forward veggie first, but together ladder up to 100% daily nutrition. So that means any two to two of our meals for a six to eight month old or any three for an eight to 12 month old is 100% of their daily recommended veggies fruits, grains and protein. So that promise behind Square was about balance and and really the word came from my grandma would always say have three square meals a day, it was one of those, one of those little mantras, she would always you know, talk about, you know, eating balanced and having your three square meals. So everything about square baby is rooted in nutrition science, we’ve done the research, we have nerded out, we’ve taken all of the guesswork out of this for parents that they can just trust that we’ve we’ve done this according to you know, what the research and the Academy of Pediatrics are recommending, then from a brand perspective on the color. So of course, when you’re starting to develop what’s the look and feel the tone the voice of your brand, you know, it’s very easy to go towards pastels, it’s very trendy, and I feel like the teals and things like that were really, really trendy five years ago when we were launching square baby but for me it was all about the color of the food and in fact we have a great picture of our purees lined up in our square containers that looks just like our logo because we have you know puree harvest feast and mango coconut chicken that look just like the orange s in our logo. And our beat berry looks like the red queue. Anyway so because really food should look good should taste good. And we should just celebrate you know real whole nutritious foods and because our meals aren’t they’re not shelf stable, right so there’s no heat pasteurization. There instead cold cold press right so just like you think about the cold pressed juices and many promises and guacamole that are on the market. Our meals remain you know fresh in color and taste and flavor and texture because we don’t overly heat them so we like to celebrate the color of real food
Max Branstetter 20:05
you missed out on the pastels because I’m somebody I live in a Vineyard Vines store, you know, you can’t get me out of there. So not the opposite but no, it’s your food has a beautiful color scheme. On that note the different varieties like the different meals you have. What does that process been like in making sure that you know one you come up with multiple varieties, but to making sure that like, they actually taste delicious? And you know, it doesn’t hurt that they look pretty cool as well.
Katie Thomson 20:34
Yeah, there definitely was a lot of thought. So when I developed the square meal system, that’s basically this big mathematical equation of
Max Branstetter 20:44
honors geo coming up big here.
Katie Thomson 20:46
Now I sound would be proud my freshman. Yeah, the one who inspired this company who’s now driving and much taller than me, which is amazing.
Max Branstetter 20:54
That’s a story for another time, right? Yeah, so this we knew
Katie Thomson 20:57
that every meal needed to fit within this Square Meal System. So there’s some math behind that thinking about their servings of fruits, veggies, you know, grains protein, we utilize healthy fats and herbs and spices as well. So there’s, there’s sort of the making sure that it delivers on that nutrition promise and being veggie forward as well. Then there’s the variety of proteins. So you know, we didn’t want to be just vegan or just vegan vegetarian or just animal proteins, we wanted to offer options for every family. So we have A, B, and C meals that have a meals have yogurt protein, and our vegetarian been meals have plant protein. And our vegan and sea meals have an animal protein like chicken bone broth, or egg or salmon. So that’s part of this like interchangeable meal system that because we’re a subscription based service, that kind of walks a customer through this journey of helping them to customize the box that’s perfect for their baby’s age and stage and dietary restrictions we wanted to make, make it as easy as possible to filter through the products that are right for their baby’s age, and stage as I was mentioning, but also if they know their baby is dairy free, it’s like great, just choose b&c meals, we got you, we don’t want them to have to read every ingredient statement or spend all this time on our website, it should be something that is seamless and foolproof, and just a good experience. So then from, oh, gosh, I wish someone had to dig up a picture of me with a present big presentation board and every meal had its own sticky note. And I tried to get all these different colors, sticky notes. So I could visually see this. First of all, I created 50 recipes that work within this the system. And when we launched I had to pick 20. So that was really it’s like picking your 20 favorite children, it
Max Branstetter 22:48
was really hard, though there’ll be very full household.
Katie Thomson 22:51
I know, I know. We could have had our own television show. So I visually wanted to make sure that the menu had variety, right. So we have all the different colors foods, we talk about eating the rainbow and what that means from a nutrition perspective that different foods with different colors bring different nutrients. And then that flavor and texture perspective. So just making sure we have variety. And then lastly, we kind of take it one step further. And we tried to think about the other pain points that we had as as new parents when you come home from your first pediatrician appointment and they say, or your like six to nine month old pediatrician appointment, they test your baby for iron and this is really stressful moment when they’re like oh well your baby’s low in iron because our natural stores have depleted. And now you’re you’re here trying to figure out how you’re going to solve this. So we have other filters on our website. So products that have iron and vitamin C to help absorb the iron so that they can really filter through and look for products that meet their needs. So a lot a lot of layers of thought went into those first 20 meals
Max Branstetter 23:54
iron is in the salt for iron just you know send your baby to the weight room pumping iron like that’s what that’s what you’re Yeah. Okay, perfect. All right. So what made the difference for you in like those 20 options and now like whatever your exact number of varieties that you have today like what what made those rise to the top your favorite children
Katie Thomson 24:18
like us I think a big part of that was the color of the variety like which 20 gave me the most ingredients to so we don’t have a bunch you know everyone’s got green beans are keen mine at but that with those 20 meals we felt like we could assure a parent through their very first bite to when they’re ready to transition to solid tomorrow like finger foods and table foods so you know really simple, smooth texture a little bit thinner for their first bites and then kind of gradually going towards chunkier and thicker textures etc. So there were just a lot of little layers of thought that went into those those first 20 And which was made even harder when we scale And then I had to pick nine to start with.
Max Branstetter 25:05
People, people use the analogy of having to pick your favorite children, not many use the analogy of having to pick your favorite children of your favorite children. You took that to the next layer. Where did you start to find customers and like a lot of customers for this was I mean, that’s not easy for anybody.
Katie Thomson 25:25
It’s interesting, because, you know, I told you, I had this idea. When my baby was first starting solids, love startups in 2010, launched the company in 2018. So eight years in between leaving my job and officially starting whole other podcast and three other episodes of of what happened in those eight years. But I think the good thing is the market evolves. So I think my idea of having fresh baby food and baby freezers and aisles, many years ago would have been a lot more challenging, because I don’t think the customer base was there. I think that things that I was noticing, as a dietitian, now, most moms are really noticing the high sugar, the fact that they want to get their baby fresher meals versus the shelf stable meals, the protein options that just aren’t on the market. And even now, we have allergen introductions, so I won’t, I won’t bore you too much. But new new research shows that you can actually help prevent food allergies by introducing allergens as early as four to six months. And no other company was leaning into that research and giving parents an option to introduce tree nuts and egg and salmon and, you know, all of the eight allergens, so that’s another, you know, big differentiator for us. So how do we find them? So in the beginning, we were regional, so we were in a commercial kitchen, Kendall, my co-founder and I made the first 100,000 meals by hand, we became an FDA approved food manufacturer, we made meals out of the bay area and a little and little certified organic kitchen. And it was an awesome, it was an awesome period of the company because it we were so close to the product that we knew, you know, we were able to test on much smaller batches, right. So when we would go in, we would usually make two to three meals a day of the two to three flavors, and 800 meals. So usually we make around three 350 of each meal. So it’s not like you’re going in there and making 10 or 25, or even 50,000, which is what you’re going to look at for you know, minimum order quantities that are co manufacture, you can’t really make many adjustments, but now you have to go so you know 25,000 of whatever you just made. So we really spent the first three years been, you know, hyper focused on on iterating on product, as well as customer. So looking at best way to attract that customer or to retain that customer. We did some you know, Facebook and Google ads to start. But because we had such a small production, honestly, we would have to turn marketing off pretty quickly because we couldn’t keep up with the demand. So in that commercial kitchen, it was, you know, we really had very, very strong retentions we had like 79% retention our customers, once they found us loved us stayed with us spent a lot with us because, you know, we we made sure that we didn’t grow for growth’s sake, and we didn’t grow too fast that we were really focused on operational excellence at each stage. So making sure that for example, it’s a frozen meal, we ship in a compostable cooler box with dry ice, we need to make sure that the partner that we had, from the very beginning knew exactly how to get those meals to their doorstep, you know, 99.5% of the time frozen. So we really focused on making sure that that our operations were sound and reliable, right? Because this is a really big decision that a parent’s making and if you fail, because you won them on all of the marketing and getting them to make their first purchase, but then you failed them from a customer service and operations perspective. They’re done, you know, you’ve lost their their trust that you’ve done the rest of it well, so we did a lot of farmers markets, big gatherings where, you know, hundreds of parents and parent groups, we actually had a storefront as well for the first three years. So that was a great one on one interface with our customers. So you know still we still do all the customer service ourselves candle and ice. So we’ve remained very, very close to our customer and what’s important to them, but I think that’s a big piece of it is is understanding their struggles, understanding what’s important to them, and just delivering.
Max Branstetter 29:41
My mind is blown because I didn’t plan this but we had a recent guests at the time of this recording Camilla Opperman Morris Episode 281. I can remember these now when they’re like within a few episodes ago, but anyway, she has a cool company called Nimbus – Nimbus kitchens. It’s like a shared kitchen company. And so like I was just learning about commercial kitchens and shared kitchens and how valuable they are, especially for businesses like yours. And it’s so cool that ties together of like, how instrumental that was for you and Kendall and like the early days of, of getting this off the ground, but also My mind is blown, because how you said, you made the first one 100,000 meals by hand. Oh my gosh, how did you do that and like, sleep and live?
Katie Thomson 30:28
Well, we got a lot more efficient. I will say Kendall, Kendall, and I are really awesome team, we could pretty much you know, we could probably go in there and not say a word to each other and know exactly what step to do. It’s sort of like a dance like making Thanksgiving but you know, on steroids, because just the amount of like things going on at once from like sterilizing equipment to okay, we’ve got this, you know, steaming over here, it needs to steam to 100 and whatever degrees, then we need to mark it down for the FDA and did it and it was nuts, we were an I was an exceptional shape. When I turned 40, that was a total win for me. And actually, it took quite a toll, I will tell you, um, physically, you know, doing repetitive motor movements all the time, so filling things and lifting. So we would lift these, like 50 pound things, like hotel pans, I had steaming carrots with boiling water underneath, you know, and you’re just like, you’re trying to go, you know, move at you. So you’re all super tense. And, you know, these these movements, my back was screwed up. My neck was good. Anyway, it’s a whole long story, but it makes you really great. You know, like I said it when you’re so close to your product, there’s just a level of carrying along this whole way. And I think it’s because, you know, it’s not like we started this company, because we were so determined to start a company or to be a CEO, or whatever it was, like we really wanted to solve for all these pain points that parents were having. And we also knew, knowing that it took me eight years from leaving Starbucks and having this idea and trying to figure out what the idea was and was it a recipe recipe book? Was it shelf stable? Was it in a pouch was it you know, fresh and delivered? You know, the square meal system, all the all the years of research and planning and business development and modeling that went on. I knew that launching the company was a gift, like just getting to the starting line was such a huge effect. We opened the storefront on my 40th birthday. You know, I remember my friends and beyond be like, decide what you want to do on your 14th is have a you know, a party for square baby like, don’t you want to like go on this big trip? And I was like, Are you kidding me? This is the greatest gift to have gotten to this point. So we just don’t take any of it lightly.
Max Branstetter 32:52
And I don’t take anything Cleveland lightly. I take Cleveland heavily, rather, because it’s my favorite city in the world. And you will love Cleveland just as much if not impossible. At CEX Content Entrepreneur Expo 2024, it is May 5-7, 2024 in, you guessed it, Cleveland, Tennessee, no, just go to Cleveland, Ohio. You can sign up at cx dot events and use the promo code MAX100. That’s MAX100 for $100 off any in person ticket, and you will be able to see some of the coolest people in the world including Joe Pulizzi, The Godfather of Content Marketing, who co-founded the conference, as well as BJ Novak, also known as Ryan Howard, if you are a fan of The Office. Now let’s get more and more tasty. So I’d love to switch gears a little bit. And if you’re okay with it, geek out a bit about taste and palate and things that I know when stuff tastes really good. But I’d love to learn more about like the science behind it because you’re an expert at that. Can you shed a little light on I guess just a quick crash course on like, how tasty works like why is it different things make our brain like light up with like, wow, that’s delicious. Well,
Katie Thomson 34:20
first of all, I don’t know. I didn’t have the smartest answer to this. Because I’m not a trained chef or trained R&D person. However, I
Max Branstetter 34:28
think you’re a trained if you make 100,000 meals of anything, while not talking to your business partner. You’re trying chef.
Katie Thomson 34:38
Yeah, that’s I mean, it’s funny. I think you learn a lot you know, I cook a lot at home too. So you know some of this is just the food tastes good. Right? So you’re thinking about flavor combinations. You’re thinking about the color combinations. So for example, mango coconut chicken, you know, we have carrots as the number one ingredient They’re then I think you think about the the fruits and veggies sort of, or whatever the strongest flavor driver is going to be carrot sort of, you know, kind of compliment a lot of different things, right. And the mango, I really did want some of that flavor, because it’s sort of an interesting tropical flavor to be to come through, especially because carrot is going to be a dominator there. But also they’re both orange, right? So so knowing that you’re not mixing all these different colors and end up with a whole bunch of brown foods, despite how how fresh they are, if you mix a whole bunch of, you know, different colors together, just like we learned when we were mixing paints, and how to make the different colors, right. So some of its is just as simple as that. But we do think about, you know how herbs and spices can really lift the flavor or how even just a touch of lemon juice. So we started adding a touch of lemon organic lemon to our meals in the commercial kitchen. Knowing that when we went to scale with a co manufacturer, it’s something that we would need to do from a pH perspective. So we didn’t want the meals we made the commercial kitchen to be daily, we wanted them to be as similar. And even we found that scaling with a co man and commercializing our recipes, we found the meals to to even improve but so we started adding a touch of lemon what we learned was that really brightened up and almost made the the fruits taste sweeter, if that makes sense. So you would think they would sort of come through a bit more. So if we’re, you know, not a fruit forward fruit heavy brand, like the rest of the baby foods, like how do you utilize, you know, herbs and spices and because we don’t do any salt, right, or any added sugar, of course, and other acids and healthy fats and things to make the meals as palatable as possible. But to kind of tweak the flavors, I think just part of that is just getting in your kitchen with a blender and trying things out. But you don’t have every lever, right? So you can’t like I said, you’re not adding salt to something. And for us, you know, we have these nutrition parameters with our 100% daily nutrition promise. So it’s not like I can just say, Oh, well, we’re gonna take this one ingredient way up, or this one way down. We really wanted the balanced nutrition piece to, you know, to remain true throughout all of our meals. So I don’t know, it’s tricky, tricky, I guess. But simple in the same way, right? Tricky
Max Branstetter 37:24
and simple. Now it sounds sounds super fun. Like that’s so cool that like you get I see why you geek out about it. Like, it’s so fun that you get to test out these combinations as part of your job that you created. And it’s always interesting. Like, I find that just like when a restaurant goes like viral for having like a really buzzy dish. It’s always interesting to see what different flavors are complemented together. And everyone’s like, Oh my god, I never thought of that. And it’s usually like just two or three items that are like household items. I was looking at reservations earlier and Hoboken and there’s a restaurant here that I think it’s with their tuna tar tar. They just serve it with Pringles. And it’s like, oh, like Pringles like. And now like people are paying big bucks for Pringles at restaurants. So
Katie Thomson 38:18
the other piece of this as is thinking about, you know, the way that we eat as adults, the way you want your baby to grow up to enjoy and be exposed to foods, we know that four to seven months is a critical window with our most susceptible to liking new flavors. So it’s so important really early on to introduce them to earthy and better vegetables. So we have a lot of meals that do have a lot of thought towards you know, what are the herbs and spices that we’re introducing them to we have Apple Rosemary Lentils where you can really taste the rosemary, we have Apple Curry Chicken, where the curry is really present. When your baby transitions into table foods or you know, your Thai takeout. They have now been exposed to the curries and beets and you know, broccoli and and just you know, flavors beyond the peas and carrots and sweet potatoes, but really kind of helping them grow to be an adventurous eater.
Max Branstetter 39:14
Yeah, and thank you like I made a note I wanted to circle back to that and you did it for me. So thank you for being a fantastic guest and host that four to seven month window. Like that’s just fascinating. Why is it that that timeframe is so foundation like do taste buds just like wake up then basically?
Katie Thomson 39:33
That’s a good question. I’m sure there’s something more scientific that I’m not going to say Well, about that specifically about that period. But I will say just anecdotally as a mom and you know feeding so many babies but also watching my own kids go through this. I recognize how incredibly challenging it is for parents to turn around a picky liter, or even, you know, a baby or toddler that’s been really adventurous can all of a sudden, you know, because it’s Tuesday they decide they don’t like blueberries and they don’t like this my son Nolan decided for a whole year he stayed with us for a whole year from like 18 months to two and a half the kid would not touch a blueberry, but like the month before, could take down a whole pint. Right. So they they start to, you know, food becomes something that they might struggle with because of texture preferences, or avoidances. Or it’s a power struggle, it’s something that they can say no to and Toddlers love to say no. And so it becomes this in turn this battle at mealtime with your little one. So it’s so important that in these earlier stages, where they’re just, you know, they’re just trusting you and opening their mouth to whatever spoonful, you know that you give them, you know that they might, you might take 10 or 12 tries before they they like it. That’s the other part that many parents know is that don’t give up just because the first time they spit it out and turn their head, keep going. But the same thing is true with a more independent 18 month or older toddler is that just because they have decided to put their foot down and not eat blueberries for a year, I kept putting him on his plate and he had have had to eat one if even if you know. So if I was serving blueberries at lunch, he would have to at least have one. And then I would make sure that the rest of his plate was you know, quote unquote, a winner for him. So it didn’t, you know, starve and not have the meal. But taking them through this journey of like, introducing them to so many things in the beginning, from a palette perspective and then continuing on with that. It’s just it’s just so helpful to help them set up good, healthy habits for life.
Max Branstetter 41:41
You’re taking me back, it’s so interesting how that works. And it’s like at different stages of life to like, I remember distinctly because you reminded me, I don’t think I had like mustard like any kind of mustard, maybe honey mustard. Growing up that often. And then at a certain point, I got tired of sandwiches that were you know, like mayo or Miracle Whip or even PB&J my mom started putting mustard just like regular yellow mustard on my sandwiches at lunch. This is like in high school. And I was like, oh my god, I love mustard. Like I want it all the time that like, I don’t know, it’s so interesting how that works. But it’s really cool that you can have an impact on that on your child’s future tastes in such an early age like you were talking about.
Katie Thomson 42:26
Your tastes change even as an adult, right, so you keep trying. Keep trying that mustard.
Max Branstetter 42:36
And we’re gonna keep trying with my corny questions, you ready to wrap it up with some rapid-fire Q&A?
Katie Thomson 42:41
Oh, God help me. Yes.
Max Branstetter 42:45
That might be the best response for Yeah. All right, let’s get wild. Let’s wrap up here. You live in Bend, Oregon, which I’ve never been to see what I did. But I’ve I know. It’s like, I think it’s always on those lists of like coolest Best Places to Live or best places to visit all those lists and everything like that. What’s your absolute favorite hobby? You know, besides building your square baby business? What’s your favorite hobby to do outside of work? In the Bend area and beyond? Yeah,
Katie Thomson 43:18
so I have to give you two answers because wintertime at skiing, I grew up ski racing. My husband I met ski racing when we’re when we were in high school. And so now to be able to live 25 minutes from the mountain and ski with our kids. They’ve been Ski as an elective. So they ski on weekdays for a few hours, which is just magical. So wintertime, it’s mountain as much as possible. And the summertime, the river and the concerts here. It’s nuts like floating the river s up going to a concert. It’s like we live in a vacation town and you are constantly wondering like, Hey, shouldn’t you guys be inside working? Really, it’s just so great to see everybody enjoy the city.
Max Branstetter 44:00
Sounds like a terrible place to live. My wife and my brother-in-law, her brother. I don’t know I said it that way. Grew up big ski racers as well. So I’ve learned a lot about the ski racing well, that there’s a whole diehard community there but now it just it’s awesome that you can get differences in so many perks there and it’s all a close, a close as up from you. So that’s great. On the Oregon note, due to a recommendation from her uncle, we love the wine from Willamette dammit Willamette Valley, the Pinot Noir there do you have like a town to recommend or like an area of Willamette that is like a must visit for anybody who likes those grapes.
Katie Thomson 44:44
Do a little weekend in Dunee so all McMinnville Dundee area it’s all really close to each other. There are some great little bed and breakfasts or VRB O’s it’s like Napa quality wine and experiences without the Napa craziness I lived in the Bay Area before moving to bend and so we would frequent to Napa it was a really quick drive for us and you know, it just became a total Zoo. But I love Oregon pinos are some great Chardonnays. Yes, I’m a wine gal too. Yes, dietitian loves loves a good glass of wine.
Max Branstetter 45:18
Exactly. It’s great for the pilot. We could go on about that but and then on another Oregon note, I know that you’ve studied to various degrees literally at Oregon and Washington where do your loyalties lie in the sports world for those I’m really
Katie Thomson 45:34
loud, I get have to have a more public moment to to put my stake in the ground because everyone I know will know that I am a duck. I am a die-hard Oregon duck fan, Oregon football time, you know, watch out. And I was the gal who you know, when you go to graduate school, it’s not like you’re going to college just like going to work or a job. It’s less fun. I was in the hospital setting most of the time. You know, everything’s much harder with a lot less parties. But I would where I would like, hold my Oregon umbrella as walking to my UW classes and in Seattle. I was such a jerk.
Max Branstetter 46:12
Did you ever wear like a crazy costume at the time? No, I said at the odsonne Zoo. Isn’t that what they call the football stadium?
Katie Thomson 46:21
Not a costume. But I have really great shoes that I got. Oh gosh, they probably bet like 9094 Good lore. I’m 30 years ago that I wear for every duck and they look like Prefontaine OG running shoes. Like I’ve never seen them since I probably you know just bought them from Nike 30 years ago, but not a costume. But yeah, my cool little can only wear those shoes.
Max Branstetter 46:46
And then last one. Oh, by the way, welcome to the Big 10 The Pac 12 to two big 10 transition will be crazy for those schools so excited for the next day for the long flights between games. But and then last one, you talked a lot about flavor or taste complements in terms of you know, baby food as an adult. What is your favorite combination of flavors that maybe is like a go to recipe at home?
Katie Thomson 47:14
Oh, gosh, that’s a really good question. I don’t know if I have a really good answer that I love. I love first of all, I love hosting. I have people over all the time I love making like a cat. Well will like totally nerd out and have smoke on the barbecue for for you know, 12 hours or something and how people over but a lot of times I love having people over just super last minute and I’m actually really into making cocktails. Which I giggle again because dietician who you know starts her day out with a cup of coffee and a bite of dark chocolate first bites. And then usually isn’t he the day was set but I love the love the mixing of you know the different bitters and the different flavors and finding the really unique. What’s yours and things that that make a cocktail relate fun anyway. But I will tell you, I’ll tell you one of our tricks. So when we we smoked pork on smoker, my husband always adds orange zest to probably a pretty traditional spice blend, but always adds squeezes of orange and orange sauce. And it’s a very, very good combination. So maybe I’m thinking citrus and saltier flavors go well together. I don’t know. That was my best stab at that one.
Max Branstetter 48:28
Yeah, that was it was a great step. And it was great zest and it was a great way to bring it full circle or a full square should I say because the s in your logo is orange. So there we go. All right. Now we’ll finally bring the corniness to a close thanks for hanging in there again with all the geometry references but Katie thank you so much. This has been an absolute blast just really really love your company and what you’re all about where is the best place for people if they want to get started with square baby to learn more as well as if they want to connect with you online and maybe try out some orange zest
Katie Thomson 49:05
That should be the next baby food. Go to SquareBaby.com so you can learn everything you need to know about our meals you could reach out to us @SquareBabyFood as our Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok you know we are we are a small and mighty team so if you reach out to customer service, you’re gonna get me I would love to hear from anyone we are also always open to answering questions about nutrition and starting solids and our products so we’re here as a resource perfect
Max Branstetter 49:33
and then last thing Final Thoughts, stage is yours, it could be a quote where it’s live by the name of your you know slam dunk cocktail whatever you want send us home here
Katie Thomson 49:45
okay i this the first thing that came to mind because it’s what I tell my kids every morning and they have a little poster that’s lines this the steps as they come downstairs it says work hard and be nice to people. It’s really simple right? Do Just be a good human, work hard, do good things be kind to people.
Max Branstetter 50:09
A little bit different than my philosophy of slacking off and being a dick to people but, you know, whatever floats your boat, Katie. Katie, thank you so much for coming on the podcast, sharing the wild Square Baby story and all you do. And thank you, Wild Listeners for tuning in to another episode. If you want to hear more Wild stories like this one, make sure to subscribe or follow the Wild Business Growth podcast on your favorite podcast platform and Subscribe to @MaxBranstetter on YouTube for the video versions. You can also find us on Goodpods with good podcast recommendations. And for any help with podcast production, you can learn more at MaxPodcasting.com and sign up for the Podcasting to the Max newsletter. If you love the show, you will love the newsletter. And it’s where podcasting meets entrepreneurship – and no good, very bad puns. And you can sign up at MaxPodcasting.com/Newsletter. Until next time, let your business Pun Wild…Bring on the Bongos!!
