This is the full transcript for Episode #270 of the Wild Business Growth Podcast featuring Shannah Game – Everyone’s Talkin’ Money. You can listen to the interview and learn more here. Please note: this transcript is not 100% accurate.
Shannah Game 0:00
Between the ages of zero and seven your money habits your money personality are set
Max Branstetter 0:20
Holy cow, Welcome back to the Wild Business Growth Podcast is probably good sign if you stumble over the name of your podcast. Welcome back to the Wild Business Growth podcast. This is your place to hear from a new entrepreneur every single Wednesday morning who’s turning Wild ideas into Wild growth. I’m your host, Max Branstetter, Founder and Podcast Producer at MaxPodcasting, and you can email me at to save time with your high-quality podcast. This is episode 270 and today’s guest is Shannah Game. Shannah is an award-winning money expert, a certified financial planner, and the host of the award-winning podcast, Everyone’s Talkin’ Money. Her podcast has been downloaded at the time of this recording it has been downloaded over 24 million times. She has published over 1,000 episodes. It has been named Top 4 money podcast by The New York Times. And in this episode, we talk money tips and mindful money tips as it relates to entrepreneurship, as it relates to travel, Shannah’s story getting into the money space and starting the podcast in the first place and why it’s blown up so much, And everything from IU to the best burgers in Asheville, North Carolina. It is Shannah, and she’s game. And Everyone’s Talkin’ Money. Enjoyyyyyy the showwwwwwww!
Aaaaalrightyyyyyy we’re here with Shannah Game, who’s got game. She literally made that joke right before we hit record. So I had to throw that in there. Formally Straight Outta Compton. And already, we’ll probably have to edit this entire intro. But Shannah, super excited to connect. We’ve met in person once at Podcast Movement, we’ll get to that. But Everyone’s Talkin’ Money, one of the top finance and I’ll just say overall podcasts in the game and a really cool story yourself as well. Thank you so much for joining and stopping mid-basketball movie filming. How are you doing?
Shannah Game 2:38
Right, exactly. Yeah, I’m great. I’m so excited to be here. jokes, and all.
Max Branstetter 2:45
Good. Well, unfortunately for you, that’s the only joke we have today. And that’s about as much time as we have allowed. So
Shannah Game 2:53
that was a great interview. My best. No, it wasn’t the most efficient
Max Branstetter 2:58
now but we’re gonna get into all things with your show and some entrepreneurial tips and finance tips. And as a little afterward from the teaser I started with so one of my favorite conferences to go to pretty much every year is Podcast Movement. And you never know who you’re going to end up having a conversation with or sitting next to and it just so turns out that the first session I went to in Podcast Movement 2023 in Denver, you were seated next to me or I was sitting right next to you rather and you know doing the networking thing just saying hey, and of course one of the first things that we find out is that we both went to IU both went to Indiana University it’s like what are the odds and then I find out you have you know you’re living in Asheville you have Asheville ties. My wife Dana’s family has Asheville ties as well so just so many things that it before in common before even me researching and learning and being wowed by Holy cow that like I should have asked for your autograph right there because your podcast killer killer killer Can
Shannah Game 4:00
you can you do my like morning like like wake up call every morning right? My pump it up? Sure.
Max Branstetter 4:08
Yeah, exactly. I you can find me on cameo for alarm clock send ringtones but on that IU note so I actually found out that you started a business while you’re at you wish I was a slacker I just studied business. I didn’t start anything back then. But what was the business you started back then?
Shannah Game 4:26
I started it was at the time this many years ago. But it was at the time the first National Student Film Festival. And I ended up running it for about three years in college by the time we got it up and running and then two years after college and then sold it actually to a Hollywood film producer. So it was so much fun. I mean, I just I loved it. It was great because I was learning all these things, you know in my college classes and then I would literally apply them to the business that I was running But it was really I have an MBA, but that was really my like St. MBA was where I got all the expertise for sure.
Max Branstetter 5:08
St. MBA, like that’s a new term, it’s taken over the nation. But how did you even come up with the idea to like, not just do anything in the film space, which I think is always cool, but to actually start a festival. I was
Shannah Game 5:21
born in Indianapolis. So I kind of have, you know, Indiana roots in me, but my family moved to Los Angeles when I was when I was young. And I decided to go back to IU for college. And at the time, I thought I wanted to be a Hollywood producer or something in the entertainment world. And I just thought, you know, being a female and being young, I needed to do something that really set myself out from everyone else. And I can’t even really remember where the inspiration came from. But I was driving down if anyone’s familiar with Los Angeles, the 405 freeway, which is notorious for being like the worst freeway in the world. And I was driving with my dad. And I said, you know, I don’t know, I kind of just have this crazy idea of starting this thing. It was between my freshman and sophomore year at school, and he was like, yeah, hey, why not go for it. So within a few months, I had set up a nonprofit organization and launched the film festival, I had absolutely no idea what I was doing. And there were four or five of us in kind of the core crew, and we were raising about a quarter million dollars a year to put this thing on, and it was just all kind of came from an idea of, of trying to really set myself apart from everyone else.
Max Branstetter 6:39
What did you learn from that early entrepreneurial journey of trying to set yourself apart, which I’m sure was just a walk in the park.
Shannah Game 6:47
I mean, I learned so much I learned about, you know, PR, I learned about, you know, putting events together, I learned about dealing with, we were dealing with, you know, entertainment industry, people that we would have out to the festival. And so there’s personalities and conflict and all of that. I also learned how to manage a team, we had a team of student volunteers. And obviously the money side, right, which is what sort of turned into my career now was learning how to be super resourceful with a small amount of money, a relatively small amount of money, and how you could take that and kind of transform that into something that, you know, people would come to the festival, and they’re like, oh, my gosh, like, I can’t believe students put this on. And so that was like, such a great compliment. And, you know, we at that time, there were only I think there was one other student film festival that existed was really small. And, you know, then there were the big ones like Sundance and SXSW, in Austin had just kind of started up. And so some of the guests had been to those festivals. And when they came to ours, they were like yours is on calibre, like on par with what you know, some of these other festivals that have millions of dollars are creating. And so we really just became kind of a ninja in all of these different skills that it takes to really operate. Certainly an entrepreneurial venture, but but anything that is just, you know, sort of hatched from an idea.
Max Branstetter 8:23
So you were the inspiration for the Sundance episode of entourage? Of course. Yes.
Shannah Game 8:29
I mean, absolutely. You know, I’m glad it’s out on this on the show.
Max Branstetter 8:36
It was only a matter of time. That’s, that’s super cool that you did that. And yeah, I remember like, when I was in college, any of my classmates that there weren’t many of them, but any that did start a business or any you know, fellow student entrepreneurs. It’s super impressive when you see somebody do that, because you know, classes and social life and anything else in college takes up enough time. How did you carve out time to make this a priority in college was so much going on?
Shannah Game 9:02
I don’t know what you know, I just I loved what I was doing. And it felt so intuitive, so natural to me that it felt like it felt like my social life, it felt like my fun it felt you know, it didn’t feel heavy, like a business. And that’s probably because I started you know, when I was 19 years old. I didn’t know any different. It just became who I was. And you know, I got a lot of friendships from it. And you know, still in friends with so many of those people still here all these many years later. So I don’t know like I never was somebody who was really into you know, going to the frat parties and, and all of that sort of stuff. I just thought it was really cool to be able to kind of take this idea that I had and turn it into something and like, watch it come to life. So that was really what what what excited me? That’s
Max Branstetter 9:55
a shame. I mean, it just sounds like a real bummer. So it’s really unfair not eating anything out of that. But now that you had a very exciting ending with that the grand finale of the movie, or the movie ending, as the kids say, what? How was that process of selling it, and especially selling it to like somebody who’s in a pretty cool, wild? Oh, great word, great word,
Shannah Game 10:19
wild, wild ordnances word. Often it was the second to the last year actually, and I don’t even I’ve tried to remember how this happened. And I just don’t have don’t have the memory. But a new company was started by this Hollywood exactly, and a few other people. And at the time, this was crazy. This was back when companies were paying individuals like a ton of money to start a website for them. I mean, now it sounds ridiculous. But that was their business model really, really wasn’t a business model, they had actually bought a piece of the festival, and actually hired me on as a consultant to help them build out a collegiate division where they were going to create all this content and kind of go after, you know, college students. And so we kind of, you know, pair it up. And then a couple months in the executive said, Hey, I actually want to, to buy your festival, like the whole thing from you, and operate it, you know, from this new company. So I was like, Okay, I mean, this is fantastic, I, I love doing the festival, but the idea of selling, it sounded really, really cool and awesome. And so I sold the festival, and I think it was about three months before the.com crash in 2000 2001. And so the festival went down, after I’d sold it went down and you know, blaze of glory with with the stock market crash, and the company ended up sort of folding, and the, the whole festival just sort of fell apart after I’d sold it. So that was a little bit of a, you know, really like sort of stain for me and I tried to revive it a couple years ago actually with like a noob sort of premise and just didn’t get, you know, everything around it that I that I wanted to do. And so I don’t know that the idea is still kind of circulating there, we had this idea of, of, of changing it and calling it college film wars and kind of using a, like a real sort of cool competitive environment between different colleges. So I don’t know, I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s definitely a love of mine, but I don’t know if it will ever go anywhere further than then it went.
Max Branstetter 12:35
So let’s go further than it has went. If that’s proper English, let’s get to some money stuff, as it’s properly called, again, so everyone’s talking money, awesome, awesome podcasts that you’ve been doing. Since I was three, you bet you’ve been doing it for at the time of this recording, getting somewhat close to a decade of doing it, which is pretty cool. And millions and millions and millions of downloads and just awesome press PR so you know, endless congrats for all that just like really, really, really, really, really cool. Even if I can’t say really, that many times in a row. What’s really cool about the podcast is that you You of course, you know, have some of the top names and finance on you have really really helpful episodes, whether it’s interviews or solo in the money space, but there’s, you’ve crafted a an incredible, I guess, tone of voice, like your, your relatability as your podcasting is unmatched out there. And I think part of my hypothesis of what makes your show so popular is people feel like, you know, they’re listening to a friend when they’re listening to you, you know, not just somebody who knows their finances. And you talk about all sorts of things that a lot of different, you know, financial experts don’t talk about. So that was, again, a big preamble that you’ve paid me for. So thank you for that.
Shannah Game 13:57
Again, that will be my wake up call. Yeah,
Max Branstetter 14:00
exactly. This is gonna I hope you’re waking up for two hours at a time. But where did this interest in the financial space really hit ahead to you realize that like, I want to build a career and even a show out of this first? Yeah,
Shannah Game 14:15
I just want to say a big thanks. That actually really means a lot to me that relatability is something that is so important to me, particularly in the money space, because I feel like a lot of people are just regurgitating sort of the same old content in this space. And that was never something I wanted to do. And a lot of times I’ve been criticized about how I talk about money and you know, at the end of the day, I’m like, Okay, well, this is just what I think after spending many years actually working with people like legitimate actual money expert stuff. It was crazy because i i After the film festival got sold. I was like, Well, what am I going to do now with this weird sort of set of skills and didn’t know what to do. And so I went back and started getting my MBA and MBA in entrepreneurship. And at that time, my dad had a, he’d been in the financial industry, his whole career. And he’s had a small firm, and he’s like, I’m kind of bored. Do you want to just see if we, we can work together? I was like, Sure. All right, why not? And so, you know, from day one, we were working with people with these massive estates, and I got to really learn that we all get tripped up by that same money stuff, you know, and then I was looking at my peers who are in, you know, getting MBAs as well. And they knew nothing about personal finance. So I basically took my skills that I learned from the film festival, which is speaking, writing, talking about money and making something you know, really relatable. And that’s what I started doing. I started speaking on stages. I, you know, podcasting wasn’t really a thing when I when I started the finance world. But I started blogging, and I had written an article about 20, money steps to take in your 20s, something of that sort. And it ended up going viral. And so I thought, Hmm, okay, this is really interesting. There must be something to this millennial demographic and money. And I was teaching a, I taught at a university in Los Angeles for 10 years, I created personal finance courses for them. And one day, I asked my students like, what should I do? Should I create a YouTube? Or, like, how should I get more of my content out there, and they’re like, oh, my gosh, you should create a podcast. And so that was on a Friday. And I came up with the name Millennial Money, because back in 2015, it was really easy to find a really nice podcast name that nobody else had. And on Tuesday, I released my first episode, so I didn’t even think a whole lot about I got a microphone and I just, you know, started podcasting. And you know, I think it was within the first two months. One day it was an event and like, my phone was blowing up, all these people were contacting me, I’m like, What is this about? And my brother sent me a text and he was like, your show? Is the number two show in all of podcasts like above Rachel Maddow and I’m like, what, like, How is this even pop? I don’t even know what I’m doing. Is this even possible? And so, you know, that sort of became the genesis for the show, we changed the name and in 2021, yeah, it just, it literally came from these, this kind of weird toolbox of skills, where I love to take stuff and make it relatable, and just also a love for personal finance and helping people.
Max Branstetter 17:35
So besides relatability, which I already gave you that one, what else do you think, made the show pops so much alike, and have such momentum in those early days when it started, as you know, sounds like a really, really fun weekend project at the start.
Shannah Game 17:52
You know, I wish I knew the exact answer that question, my guess is that I try to really break down complex money topics into easy to understand bits. I also from the beginning, I wasn’t doing interviews, and then I realized, like, oh, interviews is actually a really great strategy. And I don’t have to talk all the time. So when I started doing interviews, I tried to really curate the people that I was choosing, and I tried to make sure there was a real story behind the information they were sharing. Otherwise, I think, in talking about personal finance, can get really dry and boring. And so I was just in this constant search of trying to find a unique angle, I mean, you know, we could pick any of the popular topics, you know, saving money, or budgeting or whatever. And I could spin that 1,000 different ways with, you know, so many different guests. And each episode would be different, you know, the listener would have a different experience. So I was really in search of story behind everything. And then also, I just, I guess, this was part of the relatability. But I was really honest about my own money struggles and other people that I had worked with, in hopes to show people that we’re all so much more of like and sort of break down those walls around, you know, the stigma and the taboo about money. And then I think there are a lot of money shows out there are probably a lot of podcasts where people just come on and they start touting, like all the money they’ve made and how great they are. And I just find that like, it really makes me want to throw up. I just, I just don’t like
Max Branstetter 19:33
to have a collective purging of those types of Yeah,
Shannah Game 19:37
yeah. So you know, I just I kept kind of continually shaping my message and what I was about and just hoping that the listeners would come along with me as I you know, traveled down this road and like really tried to hone my niche and what I stand for and, you know, luckily they they have the spars with arrows and binder revolted yet, so I don’t know, you know, it’s I think it’s just a collection of things. But I just am always trying to do what feels right to me versus what everybody else is doing.
Max Branstetter 20:13
I think people really respond to that. I think that it’s so overused, I’m not I’m not going to use the word authenticity, but if I was, it would be that word. People being genuine and like true to themselves. I think that’s what, especially over the podcasting medium, like, there’s a voice into the mic, that’s what comes across so well. And the more you are close to yourself, and what you want to talk about and who you want to interview, like, I just always felt that listeners and your audience are energized when you’re energized. And like they become passionate about things that you’re passionate about, or there’s shared things, shared interest in the same thing. And that’s what can make something really pop. So it’s been an incredible journey for you. What has been over the years, the biggest adjustment you’ve had to make, besides of course, changing the name, which we’ll get to in a minute, the biggest adjustment you’ve made with the podcast, that maybe took some time to actually move forward?
Shannah Game 21:12
That’s a really good question. Um,
Max Branstetter 21:15
thank you. That’s the only good one I got.
Shannah Game 21:19
I would say, you know, the biggest adjustment had to come from me and trusting my skills and trusting that I have a seat at the table. I think that it’s really easy for me to second guess, do I really know what I’m doing? Like, am I really helping people you know, and I think podcasting is such a weird thing, because you don’t see all of those people listening to you. And so they’re, you struggle to kind of get that human to human connection. And then to see their faces, you
Max Branstetter 21:52
might actually be a little creepy in my view, and just saw them listening to you that might
Shannah Game 21:56
be that might be probably for the better. But you know, I’m someone who just I want to make sure I’m, I’m not just talking to talk that there’s a purpose behind it, and that it is helpful for people or entertaining or educational, whatever word you want to throw in there. So I think it’s really, you know, trusting myself and trusting that I have been doing this for nine years, and we do have success, and there’s still a lot more success that that can come and that you know, I deserve to be in the place that I’m in. And
Max Branstetter 22:31
I’m the name. So you hear about podcasts changing their names, sometimes, but not too often that happens when a show is already established and successful. What went into changing that name? Because I think it was you’re obviously focused on Millennials beforehand. And now you’re focused on everything. So how’d that go down?
Shannah Game 22:52
You know, I still to this day, I’m like, I don’t know, I don’t know if it was the right decision or the wrong decision. I mean, I could look at it a million different ways. My show has been lucky enough to be ad sponsored for for many years now, which is my primary source of income from from the show. And I was hearing from a lot of advertisers that actually they were interested in moving away from those specific millennial space. And then, depending on what sort of age demographic survey you look at, either fall into a Gen X, or like a really old millennial. And so, you know, I was sort of feeling myself outgrowing that that moniker, if you will. And, you know, we had thought about it for quite some time. And actually, my husband, who’s the producer on my show came up with the name, everyone’s talking money, and I really like it, you know, we did lose probably about 10 15% of our audience when we made the switch, which, you know, happens in the podcast world, and I was expecting it. But um, you know, for me, I love the idea of getting people to a place where they can talk about money openly, where it doesn’t have to be scary and fearful and, you know, anxiety ridden, and all of the things that we already know, come with money. So that was the idea of bringing, you know, everyone together, bringing lots of different perspectives, bringing more guests bringing, you know, sort of everyone, if you will, at the table talking about money. And then also, you know, over the years is it’s developed. I have a very sort of therapeutic angle to how I talk about money. And so for me also, it’s the focus on how you as yourself individually are talking to your own self about money really matters when it comes to achieving goals and doing all the things that you want to do with your money. So the name really has a lot of different meanings associated with it. And it just felt like if I was going to continue the show on for another, you know, 10 years or five years or however long it’s going to be I want a name that really felt right to me. So I mean, we throw out about a million names. But you know, so many of those names were taken or URLs weren’t open, or you know, somebody or there was something sort of similar to it. So that’s kind of the long and short of half how we ended up with it. But it’s a tricky thing to do.
Max Branstetter 25:20
It’s tricky to rock a podcast as the song goes, and rock a newsletter as well. Especially a newsletter that combines podcasting and entrepreneurship and the worst jokes you’ll ever hear. Do you know of any like that? I can’t help you. No, you could sign up for the Podcasting to the Max newsletter. That is at MaxPodcasting.com/Newsletter. Short, sweet, every Thursday, and it will, it will it will probably make you frown when you read it because the jokes are that bad. Now, let’s continue talking money. Since everyone is talking money, I would be remissed is that being used correctly? I don’t know these terms, these are all new terms. I like I get to so close to bringing it home. And then I’m like, I’m not saying that right. Anyway. I would be remiss if we didn’t talk some financial tips or mindful money tips, because I think of course, you know, a ton yourself and you’ve had some of the top names in the financial world on your show. And I know it’s it totally changes depend, you know, everyone in the world is in a slightly distinct or majorly distinct financial situation. So it depends. But I am curious to put you on the spot here really tricky. Can you share some of your just like your go to top financial tips or financial habits that kind of no matter what situation, what scenario you’re in, it’s a good thing to start thinking and start acting this way toward your money.
Shannah Game 26:56
Yeah, I would say the number one thing that people don’t think about is something I call your relationship with your money. So just like you have a partner or you have friends and you know, you hang out with them, you’re interested in them, you talk to them, hopefully, right? You’re nice to them, you. I never talked to them, you know, dinner or drinks or, you know, you want to be in that same sort of relationship with your money. And most of us are in a really crappy, terrible negative relationship with money. It deeply impacts so many different things, it impacts your ability to achieve your goals, it impacts relationships, it impacts how you feel it impacts, you know, anxiety, depression, I mean, if we look at the studies around people who are anxious about money, or depressed or stressed out, stressed out about money, it’s, it’s like 80%, I would argue a lot more but 80% of Americans and we can see why I mean, it’s just it’s this taboo topic that we don’t learn about anywhere. So I would say really understanding that your relationship with money how you define that how you think act and feel about money is so critically important. I spend a lot of time actually talking about money trauma, which is another subject that most people don’t really understand. This is kind of a racy stat but between the ages of zero and seven your money habits your money personality are set, and they’re set by what you witness from whoever raised you and what you don’t witness that kind of all comes together to shape who you are as an adult. So a lot of times we have these habits as adults and we’re like, where did this come from? Or I you know, I want to pay off my debt, but I just I go out and spend money because it makes me feel better. Like why can I change this about myself? So those kinds of things, but then also you know, I think we want money to be really complex like the you know, how do you grow your money? How do you build wealth like we want it to be this really complicated formula but it isn’t, it’s focusing on your spending spending with intention as I call it, getting some money that’s growing faster than the money sitting in your checking account. So you know, using high yield savings accounts using retirement accounts, those sorts of things, and setting up an easy automated money system for yourself where paycheck comes in, your money goes out and it goes to all of these different things, your goals, your bills, whatever without you having to think about it is one of the best and kind of easy ways to create less stress when it comes to your money.
Max Branstetter 29:34
Oh yeah, those are all like you can you can tell your your niche or niche or whatever they are with the money trauma like I had never heard that before. Before I started listening to you and it’s it’s a crazy step behind it but it’s a really important thing to hit on. It is relationship with money and it does become you know, things that you learn or habits that you have real Do you make a long term impact, even if it’s something that like you’re just starting to do on the daily or weekly or monthly and things like that. And I think if you if you are somebody who’s getting a paycheck every two weeks, or whatever the the cadence is there, obviously, that’s like a great thing to have, like you’re consistent that’s coming in, you know that that’s consistent, it’s less to worry about. And then there’s a whole bunch of other crazy people like us, called entrepreneurs, that will use this word different, some wild entrepreneurs. I’ve never heard that term actually. Now. What advice do you have for entrepreneurs in terms of your relationship with money as an entrepreneur, because, for example, if you’re like in startup mode, and you don’t have a bunch of income yet coming from the business, like, then all of a sudden, money which can be very stressful is like, even more very stressful, more very stressful, just invented a word. And over time, obviously, the idea is to grow the business and have more money coming in. But there’s still that stress there. Like what advice do you have for that relationship with money as an entrepreneur when it when you’re not somebody getting a guaranteed paycheck, like you got you have to earn that money each month, I
Shannah Game 31:09
think it’s even more important to focus on relationship with money as an entrepreneur, I’ve been one my entire career. So I know it inside and out the ups, the downs, you know, and I think not everyone is cut out to be an entrepreneur. And I think that’s okay. And I think that, you know, giving yourself a little bit of grace, if you’ve tried the entrepreneurial track, and you’re like, I just, I can’t do it because it is stressful it is. Sometimes you don’t know how much money is coming in. So, you know, being an entrepreneur, I think you have to be really resourceful. This is where I bring back this word. It’s an overused word, but intention really spending your money with intention, being resourceful stretching money, but really letting go of a lot of the kind of negative self talk around money and sort of thinking, you know, a lot of times you’ll hear, you know, debt is bad. Well, as an entrepreneur, a lot of times you got to do The Debt Shuffle, you got to have debt, you got to use debt, you got to borrow money. I mean, a lot of times, it’s, it’s, it’s using everything available to you to keep your business going and growing. And so I think it’s really important to shake loose some of those negative stereotypes around money, that negative thinking, and, you know, really be centered on what you’re doing, why you’re doing it. And you know, how to use your money to support you, you know, staying in business, keeping the lights on, you know, another day, another year, whatever it whatever it might be for you.
Max Branstetter 32:46
The Debt Shuffle that sounds like the line dances we did in middle school. Sounds very exciting. No, it’s true. It’s just totally different mindset as an entrepreneur, and I think no matter how established you are, there always is at least a little bit of stress there in terms of like, you know, like, it isn’t a guaranteed paycheck, like, you got to make sure that like you’re always getting new clients and that the current clients you have are happy and like you’re delivering high quality work, and it’s a constant effort there. For those who are in the entrepreneurship or or just overall stressed stress with their relationship with money overall. What advice do you have for managing that stress and anxiety that, that that darn thing called money can cause yeah,
Shannah Game 33:30
I’ve got a lot of tools and exercises. I’m a big I love to journal I you know, there are a lot of scientific studies around getting things from your head on paper. And so you know, handwriting things, even if you have terrible handwriting, which I do me too. There’s an exercise I suggest called financial forgiveness. And it’s pretty simple. You set a timer for about 15 minutes. And without judging yourself, you write down every crappy thing about money that you’ve done that you should have done that you’re stressed out about, you just get it all out on paper. When the 15 minutes is done, you got to walk away from that sheet of paper come back to it about an hour or so it’s up to you next day, whatever works. And then there is a mental technique of releasing that so like to burn things in a fire but maybe you’re you know, a little gentler. Maybe you want to cut it up with scissors or put it in the paper shredder but doing exercises like this teaches your brain that you can let go of those things that are kind of keeping you hostage around money. It works really well. Another exercise I do is every morning I have a little like no pad by my bed. And I write it’s called Hey comma money. And so I will tell money, what I feel about it if I’m stressed out if I if I think I’m going to have a good day, whatever. I just tell money what I think of it in the beginning of the day, and that also signal To my brain, like, Okay, I’ve gotten these thoughts, these feelings about money out on paper, like, I don’t have to obsess about these the whole rest of the day, I can go and focus and kind of live my life and then I’ll come back to it the next morning. And, until it again, what I what I think of it good, bad, ugly, everything in between. So doing some things like that are really helpful, you know, if you’re somebody that likes to meditate, there are lots of great meditation techniques out there about visualizing something different, you know, visualizing your money is a friend or, I mean, there’s lots of different techniques like that, I find sometimes just kind of getting out in nature, whether it’s going through a walk, or just something to jog your brain out of the space of kind of chronic, you know, negative self talk chronic anxiety, chronic thoughts about money, because that will not put you in a space of being able to think very logically, or good about your money. So you know, kind of depending on the type of person you are, and what really works for you, you know, there’s lots of different ways you can you can start working on your relationship with money. And one of the techniques I tried last year, because I was just having a, for whatever reason, like a crazy year about my thoughts about money. And it’s weird, because I do this work with people. So I’m always thinking about money. But I mean, this is gonna sound crazy to some people, but I, you know, try it, if you’re if you’re least in little little intrigued, I, if I’m having sort of like a run on thoughts, I will think about that thought, and I will literally like mentally put it in a bubble. And I will literally, like, push that bubble out of my head, almost like, you know, that bubble was exterior of me. And I will just tell myself, like, Okay, I let that bubble pass, like I don’t have to think about that anymore. And sometimes I say to myself, I’m not going to think about that for an hour, or for 15 minutes, or for three hours or whatever it might be. And so I’m, I’m literally training my brain to interact differently with money than the way I just sort of intuitively or intuitively are in a relationship with money. And so I think you can try lots of different things. You know, you do not have to obsess about money. 24/7 I give you permission not to do that. Shawn
Max Branstetter 37:19
is famous brain bubbles. I’m all about that. It reminds me, have you ever heard or read the book Bird by Bird?
Shannah Game 37:26
I’ve heard of it. But I’ve not read it. No.
Max Branstetter 37:28
And I’m gonna say this wrong. I want to say it’s Anne Lamott. But it might be a I’m not sure the maybe French pronunciation anyway, we had to read it for school, sometime in high school. And that’s one of those images that has stuck with me ever since is she has this idea is very similar to this, you know, Shaun of famous brain bubbles of like, if you have quote, and then use the term haters back then. But if you have quote unquote haters, or like, there’s conversations you have with people that are just kind of like ticking you off, or like annoying, you can’t get out of your head. Like, almost, if you can visualize having a jar. And then as if the people were like, mice, and we’re like, Jack, I don’t know, if you’re talking with mice, and like dropping the mice in the jar and then sealing the jar, so you can’t hear them anymore. And then just like mentally, like, keep that aside, and like don’t worry about it, which is very similar to the approach that you’re taking, obviously different, like motives behind it, but I’m all for that of just like, do it, whatever. You know, it’s almost like playing tricks on your brain, but like doing doing the things to give you that peace and kind of calmness, when a lot of this stuff, when you think about it can be tied to overthinking or just like you know, droning on a certain detail for like way longer than you should or like for your mental health. So that’s a really, really good philosophy. I do want to hit on one more money tip or money bucket before we move on here. And that’s because like yourself, like you do, and your husband, I’m sure my wife and I are huge fans of travel. And travel is like a really, really fun thing. But it’s also if you do too much travel or too much expensive travel. Yeah, you realize, oh shit, that was actually really expensive. And I think you can, there’s a tendency to almost be blinded by the cost of it or not pay too much attention to the cost of it because you’re so excited for the actual trip. And so the the reason I’m bringing this up is at the time of this recording, so last year, my wife Dana and I went on our honeymoon to Italy so it’s like awesome, like photographer, you know, you could talk for weeks straight about the honeymoon. It was amazing. It was also hands down like the most expensive trip that we’ve ever done and like the more you know, we bumped it up a notch. We went way more like high end than we’ve ever done for anything. So, you know, looking at finances as like the year goes on and looking back to like big expenses and stuff. It’s like wow, like we had a very expensive year and it’s One of those things that like, as we’re looking towards planning our next travel, it’s like a tricky spot because we love traveling, like we want to travel and do like really fun trips every year. But also like, obviously, it’s not sustainable to do like super expensive, like European trips all the time. What advice do you have for people that are that like, no, travel is like, you know, one of the best times of the year, one of the great things to do with you and your partner or even solo, but there is that kind of lurking devil, if you will, of it can be so damn expensive. I love
Shannah Game 40:34
I love the lurking devil. I’m Fred, the devil, I love to travel to you. So this is certainly a topic that I love talking about a couple of things. One, I’m a hater of budgets, do not like budgets, I instead am a proponent of what I call a spending plan. And so spending plan is sort of the same thing. But it comes from a completely different frame of thinking about money. So, you know, looking at like, hey, we want to take two trips a year. And yeah, we want to spend, you know, five grand a trip. So how do we incorporate savings for that all throughout the year. So when it comes time for our trip, like we’ve got the cash, we’ve got a majority of the money available, it’s not something we need to stress out or think about, I think is a really great way of thinking about spending and incorporating or thinking about traveling and incorporating it into your spending plan. So just becomes part of who you are, and what’s important to you and your values as a couple. Another thing is just be really smart with how you spend your money on just everyday expenses. So we use travel credit cards, I’m a big fan of travel credit cards, and we put our monthly expenses. So you know everything from our gas to our grocery shopping to a lot of our utility bills on our credit card, we pay it off every month. So we don’t have to, you know, incur interest or anything like that, but we build up points and we exchange those points for all sorts of things, hotels, you know, airfare gift cards, I mean, whatever it might be, and I love spending money this way because I would be spending this money regardless. But you know, using travel credit cards and things like that I’m able to you know, reap a reward for for my spending that then in turn turns into something of a value that that we can exchange for our travel and significantly cuts down on our you know, travel expenses. So I think you know, thinking outside of the box on how how you spend money I know there’s a lot of hate about using credit cards, and yes, we do not want to get into credit card debt, but if we use them the right way, we get all the benefits without any of the negative associated with it. So I would say you know if travel is something you love, you know, build it into your spending plan make it part of your priorities as a couple and so it doesn’t have to feel you know, shameful when you go out and you spend you know, big chunk of money on travel. This is part of what’s important to you as a couple and you know you’ve created a system around it to make it work for you. And
Max Branstetter 43:10
full disclosure I mean totally agree with all that but honeymoon expensive honeymoon trip like you don’t feel bad totally worth it. It’s like totally know where Yeah, exactly like if there’s one trip to go all the way over the top for now, but appreciate all the tips there and travel and entrepreneurship and, and beyond in the brain bubbles. Let’s wrap up with some rapid-fire q&a. Let’s get Wild. See, you cued it up there. You didn’t even know it. This. This is a hard cut. But this is a really cool fun fact about you that I’m not sure too many people know about. So I heard that you’re deaf in one year. In the years since that happen, what’s the biggest thing that surprised you about losing hearing in one ear compared to what probably many people might expect? how
Shannah Game 44:02
frustrating it is not to be able to hear everything. I feel like an 80-year-old person walking around constantly going, huh? What what did you say? Can you repeat it? But I think internally what it has taught me is I’m always asking myself, What am I listening to? Like it’s helped me become a better sensor of what I’m actually paying attention to. But yeah, it’s it’s beyond frustrating to not be able to have full hearing.
Max Branstetter 44:30
Well, it’s uh, you know, depends if your
Shannah Game 44:33
glass half empty or glass does come in handy. It does come in handy if somebody is snoring around you or there’s annoying conversation and you don’t want to listen to it. It definitely has its perks.
Max Branstetter 44:44
Right, exactly. And then Asheville, so one of my favorite cities and as I mentioned before, Dana’s dead Gary has placed there and business there for a long, long time. What is a restaurant On or bar or brewery in Asheville that like if somebody’s going to Asheville for the first time, you’re like, you have to hit this spot.
Shannah Game 45:07
I mean, this is like the hardest question ever because Asheville if you’ve never been to Asheville, Asheville is a food city. I love I love burgers. I can eat a burger all day long. So one of my favorite places is called Baby Bull. They make like throwback old school burgers and just like delicious fries. And yeah, I mean, like if I if I only had one meal to eat, I’d be a baby boy eating a burger.
Max Branstetter 45:35
All right, adding it to the list for next time. Yeah, we last time we went we just totally ate our way through Asheville. So with you there and yeah, I think as more and more time goes on burgers, I think is my favorite food ever. It’s like, I mean, I love steak. I love all that stuff. But burgers the fact that you get the bun in the cheese and the top, you know, bacon barbecue whenever you go with that. So all right, what was your kind of happy place or like, favorite spot to hit up in Bloomington when you were there? If
Shannah Game 46:05
we’re gonna say my favorite place ever is inside of the Assembly Hall watching an IU basketball game? I mean, that’s hands down.
Max Branstetter 46:13
Hands down, hands up, stripes out. Yeah, it’s a it’s a very special place. reason they call it one of the cathedrals of college basketball, is since you have an interest in film and start business around film. What is a movie that you have to stop what you’re doing anytime you see it on? And just watch?
Shannah Game 46:36
Oh, it would probably be a holiday movie. It’d be something like The Holiday or some cheesy, you know, Christmas holiday movie. I’m sort of a sucker for all of those. So it would probably be something in that vein,
Max Branstetter 46:51
like the Vacation. Oh, absolutely. Right. Absolutely.
This is totally a guess. So correct me if I’m wrong, but what do you like about drafts? It sounds like that came out of nowhere. There’s a reason
Shannah Game 47:08
I have actually seen giraffes live and in person in Africa and now 2012 A couple of feet away from some giraffe so I mean, majestic like I don’t even know how to describe them beautiful, beautiful animals like just majestic and the way they walk is like how I want to embody life like it’s purposeful, but it’s also like delicate and yeah, I’m a big fan of giraffes. Awesome,
Max Branstetter 47:38
majestic all around, they saw giraffe which made me think of that. But also, my mom’s all time favorite animal is a draft. So on our house growing up, we had lots of different draft stuff going around. And so yeah, whenever you see one in person, it’s like, wow, hopefully helps to put things in perspective. I wish I was 24 feet tall or whatever they are. But Shannah, thank you so much. This has been an absolute blast. I learned a ton awesome catching up and big fan of everything you’re about including burgers and Asheville, which I’m going to hop on a flight right after this that that I have budgeted for now just go. But thanks so much for coming on. Where’s the best place for people to subscribe slash follow your podcast, or watch your podcast as well as any other place online to connect with Yeah, you
Shannah Game 48:25
can check out Everyone’s Talkin’ Money or on any in every podcast player. We will be on YouTube at the beginning of 2024 Depending on when you’re listening this episode at Everyone’s Talkin’ Money and yeah, we’d love I would love to have you as a listener and you can check out the podcast and then from there learn everything else that we’re up to you.
Max Branstetter 48:45
Perfect and every everyone is talking about it. So I think it’s a very clever name. In that last thing, final thoughts stage is yours. It could be a quote one last little piece of advice or it could just be like you making fun of me for how out of left field that draft question was whatever you want, send us out here.
Shannah Game 49:05
Okay, I’m gonna I’m gonna bring it back to entrepreneurship, you know, I would want to leave you with. Don’t ever doubt your idea. If you have an idea. You think it’s good, I want you to go for it. I want you to not care what anyone else is telling you. Everyone’s got an opinion if but if you’ve got some burning inside of you that you want to bring to life, bring it to life.
Max Branstetter 49:28
Game, set, and match. Thank you, Shannah, so much for all you do and all you moolah. And thank you, Wild Listeners, for tuning in to another episode. If you want to hear more Wild stories like this one, make sure to follow the Wild Business Growth Podcast on your favorite app and tell a friend about the podcast and then share your favorite episode which might be this one with them as well as your favorite episode of Everyone’s Talkin’ Money with them and talk about it and that’s the best call to action you will ever hear. You can also find us on Goodpods, where there are good podcasts and podcasts recommendations and podcast people. And for any help with podcast production, you can learn more at MaxPodcasting.com and sign up for the Podcasting to the Max newsletter. That is at MaxPodcasting.com/Newsletter. Until next time, let your business Run Wild…Bring on the Bongos!!
