This is the full transcript for Episode #285 of the Wild Business Growth podcast featuring Scott Dikkers – The Onion, How to Write Funny. You can listen to the interview and learn more here. Please note: this transcript is not 100% accurate.
Scott Dikkers 0:00
I really think life is short, goes by really fast. We should enjoy what we’re doing.
Max Branstetter 0:19
Hello, welcome back to the Wild Business Growth podcast. This is your place to hear from a new entrepreneur every single Wednesday morning who’s turning Wild ideas into Wild growth. I’m your host, Max Branstetter, Founder and Podcast Producer at MaxPodcasting, and you can email me at to save time with your high-quality pod with with our high quality podcast so it could be our high quality podcast. This is episode 285 and today’s guest is Scott Dikkers. Scott is founder of The Onion yes that that the onion and is also the number one New York Times bestselling author of How to Write Funny and he has an incredible knack for breaking down. Well how to write funny how to write jokes. And this episode we talk The Onion story, the garlic story, the scallion story even some leeks, bok choy as well, how Scott and team grew and grew and grew the onion, how they came up with those Camus headlines. His funny filters that go into writing jokes, good jokes, how comedy differs by generation, and some of the most memorable comedians and famous people and all sorts of people who have left an imprint on Scott. It is Mr. D. Enjoyyyyy the showwwwww! Aaaaalrightyyyyyyy we’re here with Scott Dikkers aka The Dick Man as you prefer to be called. No, I’m just kidding. I’m sure you’ve gotten that a million times. Really, really excited for this one. It’s something I’ve been looking forward to for a long time. One of the founders of The Onion, one of the most influential and and factually correct publishers of all time, but also how to write funny you got some really, really cool books and kind of carved your niche in the comedy writing and comedy space. Scott, thank you so much for joining. How are you doing today?
Scott Dikkers 2:21
I’m great. Thanks for having me on your show. I’m excited about it. We’re gonna talk business growth. Right? It’s gonna be wild. Right,
Max Branstetter 2:32
exactly. And it’s a podcast. So we’re just covering all all terms here. So we’re gonna start with our onion tasting section where I have sent you an onion in the mail. And from there, we’re going to peel it back like No, I’m just kidding. No, actually, before, before we get to The Onion. I have to start off by saying I am starstruck and not just by you and your prowess. But also as prep for this. I was listening to one of your podcasts and you’ve interviewed some very, very well known and cool people in the space and the one that almost brought a tear to my eye with sadness and laughter. Was your interview with Bob Einstein, the late Bob Einstein, who I know growing up as Marty Funkhouser on curb but I think more people before that, know him is Super Dave Osborne and from this mother, Smothers Brothers and all the rest in peace, just an absolute legend. But your is one of the favorite aspects of the power of podcasting is that like your interview, which I think was from 2015 with with him, it felt like I was sitting there in the room with you guys. And you were just going back and forth. And he told some of his iconic jokes. And I just wanted to thank you for that. How was your experience recording that with Bob?
Scott Dikkers 3:44
That was one of the few interviews that I did remotely, I would do almost everything in person. In those days, I would show up at the person’s house and set up the mics or meet him at their hotel if they were traveling or whatever. And you know, he I think he was just an old man living in his house and like to leave his house and he had a landline phone you know, so I just called his landline
Max Branstetter 4:09
recorded it looked him up in the Yellow Pages.
Scott Dikkers 4:13
I can’t remember how I got in touch with him. But yeah, I was a huge fan of his stuff. I always thought he was just like one of these comic mines that is under appreciated. Partly because he hid behind Super Dave Osborne never came out really as himself like never did stand up. You know, and he’s Albert Brooks his brother so Albert Brooks obviously much more famous. But yeah, just always thought he was so funny debatable now well over time, but he was really funny because he can Sam Scott you got to do you got to do jokes. You’re not doing enough jokes and your podcast people don’t listen to this. He thought nobody wanted to listen to the in the weeds. And I tried to explain to him you know that’s that’s old thinking like Steven Spielberg never did DVD commentaries because he didn’t think anyone would care. My God what people would have given to hear Steven Spielberg do a director’s commentary on any of his movies. He’s done so many interviews, you could probably piece one together for every movie. But yeah, he was very confused by this idea of the Internet age where there’s hierarchies of information and you want to give fans the deepest level of information to go to if they want to go there. He was still living in the old days of TV where you know, your show up, you’re doing a joke, and you go home.
Max Branstetter 5:39
Yeah, absolutely legendary. Those are some great lessons there too. At the time of this recording, I just got done watching masters of the air on Apple TV, which is like one of my favorite shows in recent recent history. And, you know, it’s part of the production team behind it is Spielberg and Tom Hanks. And they also in addition to the nine part miniseries, they have an accompanying accompanying, which is not easy to say, one hour documentary, and it’s narrated by Hanks, and then there’s interviews with Spielberg in it. And even though all this history and the footage and all that world watch your stuff is so cool. Some of my favorite parts, were just seeing the camera on Spielberg and just hearing him talk about these things in the personal story like people, people in this case, I mean, me like eat that stuff up. So that’s absolutely spot on. Yeah,
Scott Dikkers 6:25
I’m reminisce for stories that actors tell about working with Spielberg because it’s like the closest you’re gonna get to like, how is it like on the set with him? What does how does he work? You know, but it was fun to get behind this. It’s behind the scenes with Bob on comedy. He did end up you know, ultimately, she showed up for that task, like talking about the process and stuff.
Max Branstetter 6:48
Yeah, totally. And some of his jokes never get old. On that note of interviewing some what I call pinch me moment, people. Who else is some in addition above who’s somebody that you’ve either interviewed or crossed paths with through your comedy and writing journey that afterwards you’re like, holy cow, like how in the world and I just have a conversation with this person?
Scott Dikkers 7:10
Oh, my God, there’s so many. You know, Garry Shandling Chris Rock Louie CK, Tina Fey, Amy Poehler, you know, some of the giants of comedy in the last generation. Bob Odenkirk, literally stalked me at The Onion.
Max Branstetter 7:29
Wait, hold on, what do you mean by that?
Scott Dikkers 7:30
He was an unknown actor at the time he was on The Larry Sanders Show. And he was where he was shooting, mr. show, he discovered the onion. And he called and called and called and, you know, wanted to tell me how great he thought it was and invite me out to LA and have chicken and waffles with him and his buddies. That’s what he does. Like he finds people whose comedy he respects, and he gets real fannish about him. But like, he kept calling and you know, at that time, the onion was really kind of becoming famous around that time, late 90s, I would say, and we were getting so many calls and so many letters. I didn’t know who it was. And every time he called he tried to give a little bit more identifying information to the receptionist or whatever. And one message he finally mentioned that he plays a character on The Larry Sanders Show, super agent Stevie grant and I of course knew that show love that show. Especially thought the super agent Stevie grant character was amazing. And so I called him back and sure enough, he invited me out there and I got to watch them shoot an episode of Larry Sanders. I hung out when they were shooting mr. show. We went to Ross goes chicken and waffles and got chicken and waffles. It was you know, I met the whole cast and everything. He really gave me the star treatment and then he and David invited me to this HBO party that had all these like, you know, HBO celebrities. They’re like it was a real star studded party or whatever. Yeah, a lot of the people I met you know, before they were really that famous, like Tina Fey had just gotten hired as the head writer of SNL, when I met her Louie CK was going to possibly produce show for the onion. He had worked on the Dana Carvey Show and was doing stand up that’s about it. Amy Poehler, you could go see her as Cat every Sunday night at the UCB in New York. But yeah, those are those are some fun moments. And one of my favorites actually is Ellie Kemper came to work for us at the onion. And also Conner O’Malley, who’s I discovered his videos and invited him into the office just to meet him. He was so funny. And not surprisingly, he ended up this is when we were in Chicago. He moved out of Chicago went to New York got hired on Seth Meyers, married at Brian from SNL got a pilot for his own show, which was hilarious started doing these incredibly funny In viral videos, he just he was just such a brilliant performer like you. You haven’t seen that kind of like manic energy since like Belushi you know? Yeah. Or Eric Andre maybe just somebody like just crazy. So I’m still waiting for big things from him even though he’s doing great.
Max Branstetter 10:19
Erica Andre as a whole that that you needed a lifetime of a podcast length to dissect Eric Andre. But those are, those are incredible shadows. They’re crazy. You mentioned Ellie Kemper because literally at the time of this recording, my wife Dana, and I started watching Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt last night. Oh, so we watched it, and we spoke it into existence. So thanks for bringing that full circle, but also, also with the Bob Odenkirk story that this is just legendary. I think, if you add to your resume, stalked by Saul, like you could get any gig ever. That just you who doesn’t want to hang out with them? Yeah,
Scott Dikkers 10:57
no, he’s super fun.
Max Branstetter 11:01
So let’s get to the onion. As everybody knows, it was named after the famous quote from Shrek about layers and ogres and onions. No, but um, I would love to hear your side of it. How did you get involved with this thing that would have become the only and one day in the first place?
Scott Dikkers 11:18
Yeah, so I was a very well known and successful cartoonist in Madison, Wisconsin. At the UW campus, I had a self singing syndicated strip and had T shirts that everybody wore hand, I had put out a book that that made the New York Times bestseller list. And these two guys who were starting the shimmer publication, wanted me involved because I was like the local, you know, newspaper, comedy celebrity. And I helped them I came up with a bunch of different comic strips for them. And then I started helping them out around the office around issue three, and helping them write come up with ideas in addition to my cartoons. And then a few months into it, they offered to sell it to me. And I bought it in with a couple of other partners. We all had an equal share. We ended up buying out the third partner a couple years after that. And so yeah, from year two, I was owner editor. That’s how I got involved.
Max Branstetter 12:27
Did you go in with the intention that I’d like to take it over one day? No,
Scott Dikkers 12:32
I just thought it was fun. But it’s funny, because today as we’re speaking, some investors just bought The Onion again. And all these like, who knows who they are like Silicon Valley investors are spending 10s of millions of dollars selling and buying the onion. And I bought it for $3,000.
Max Branstetter 12:53
In my low 1989.
Scott Dikkers 12:55
Yeah, well, with inflation,
Max Branstetter 12:57
that’s about 6 trillion that you bought it for us. So that’s pretty good. So in those early days, what was kind of the vision for what the onion strove to do if strobe was even a word? It is.
Scott Dikkers 13:10
And a lot of the early vision was from Tim Keck, one of those two guys I mentioned, who was trying to parody like a midsize towns newspaper, and also maybe parody USA Today. But we really fell pretty quickly into the arena of making fun of the grocery store tabloids, not the celebrity ones, but like the freakish ones with like the Weekly World News and the globe, that were black and white. And they would have the Bat Boy and stuff like that, you know, boy raised by bats took on bad characteristics or whatever it looked like a bat, we did a fair amount of that sort of stuff. And always tried to put a really silly spin on it. And it wasn’t until a few years in that we started doing more straight news parody, where we were playing it straight, and pretending that it was all straight. We’d still do silly stories, but we just packaged it as more very serious AP style news. But yeah, we did a lot of other things besides that we did like a lot of different wacky when a date with you know, some crazy person contest, a cut out game, you know, bunch of big comic strips that really took over the paper. We didn’t really wasn’t weren’t sure what what it was other than we’re just trying to be funny. We’re just having fun. And that’s a great process. Because every issue, you just try to make it better than the last issue. And you kind of zero in on your voice. And then we finally found our voice and did a major kind of retooling right around 1995. Where we made the whole thing looked like a real newspaper from front page to the back page, so that if you picked it up and didn’t actually read the words, it would look exactly like a real newspaper. Whatever. comic section, editorial page, the whole shebang. And we got rid of all the wacky silly stuff. We used to have a feature called drunk of the week, where we would go out and take a picture of a drunk person on Friday night and feature them in the onion and give them a certificate. And it was literally the most popular feature in the onion. And when I decided to cut it when we were doing this retooling this re refiguring, this onion 2.0 to make it look like a real newspaper. I got a lot of grief from the ad staff. You can’t you can’t cut the most popular feature. I was like, Yes, I can. It had to go. It’s just had to go. There’s
Max Branstetter 15:38
only so many people that can be drunks each week. Oh,
Scott Dikkers 15:41
no, there was never a shortage. There was never a shortage. I always knew people.
Max Branstetter 15:48
That would do really well on any platform, I think speaking a platform. So you mentioned like the newspaper format, what was involved over the years of like, as it became possible to have an online newspaper and social media, like how did you kind of navigate through that, you know, wonderful craziness.
Scott Dikkers 16:08
I wanted the onion to be available in every media possible. So we immediately moved into media that was available to us. The first one we moved into his radio super easy. We partnered with local radio station started doing like a little Onion News bit. And then we started producing in our on our own and syndicating it to stations all over the country. I know Howard Stern played it for a long time. And that was a great way for us to build the onions, awareness, you know, awareness of the onion, was to get that radio skit everywhere. It was super funny too, is like just like the super square sounding am newscaster doing these really brief one minute onion things? And they sounded like real news, you know. And then we did a website. We did I think we did a TV pilot. First we tried to get on TV. We did a comedy CD. And the internet was just like one of our designers came to me and said, hey, you know, we could we could put this on the computer. And people could type in an address. And they would find the onion. And I was like, Okay, let’s do it. And it cost us $400 To get the domain, the onion.com. Because they were just $400. My partner didn’t want to spend the money, it was pretty funny. And then we did a book. And then we did we started doing online video, we did a podcast, we did a movie, we did everything we could possibly do to get the word out. And it was always a matter of rethinking what the onion was, we learned a lot of lessons from the TV pilots, those early pilots, and the early comedy CDs, we learned that we got to do what people expect from us, we got to be in our voice. And we have to totally change what we do to suit the rules of the new medium. You can’t just take for example, the newspaper and just put it on the radio, it’s not going to work, you gotta you have to make it sound like a radio show. Same with all the other media.
Max Branstetter 18:12
So one of those those aspects that I would think is pretty transferable among mediums, but definitely can look a little bit different. One of the things that I think I instantly think of what the onion is the headlines. So like the headlines for each article or post, however you want to view it. Those are like, I mean, they’re literally one liners, those are the real zingers. Those are the you know, you might think you’re seeing it in like newspaper format. And then you see that and you’re like wait a second that. That’s where they really get you or where you really get you. But what what was the strategy in terms of crafting those headlines?
Scott Dikkers 18:47
That was a whole process. So at first, the onion wrote comedy, the way that most short comedy was written up until that time, which was you assign a story to a writer, they write a story, and then you read it. And you think, Okay, this is pretty funny. Let’s come up with a title for it. And let’s run it. That’s kind of what we did. though. Maybe for some of the front pages, the headline came first. There was no real system. Eventually, I got this book called information anxiety, which is a great book that was all about the importance of the hierarchy of information. And there’s so much information thrown at us every day. There’s more information in today’s New York Times than a person in the Middle Ages was exposed to in their entire lifetime. And so how do you manage that? How do you take all that in? And this guy, the guy who wrote this book was all about well, you should produce a very short headline that gives you a brief synopsis of the information. Then you can do a sub headline, you know, maybe a large print paragraph that gives you a little more information. And then you can have a deeper story if somebody really wants to go are in the weeds on this and learn everything there is to learn about it. It occurred to me that that really is the way that a comedy article should be written. It should be a really funny joke that grabs you. And then if you decide to read it, you just get rewarded because it keeps getting funnier and funnier. Whereas the old comedy writing, like if you read the Harvard Lampoon, or the National Lampoon, or Steve Martin’s book, Woody Allen’s books, Mad Magazine, they wouldn’t have funny headlines necessarily, it would just like you’d be, you’d have to trust New Yorker good example. You start reading the article, and you trust them, because you figure, okay, they printed this, they must have thought it was funny. And by the time you get to the end, you might get a punchline. And the headline is a total afterthought. Just like, how are you getting readers that way, and part of it was that the onion was unknown, the onion was not a humor brand, who’s going to sit down and trust this thing and read it, we have to grab them immediately, and put out a red carpet for them and coax them in. So only way we’re gonna get people to read it. Which was really handy when we started, you know, competing with a trillion times more information on the internet. Now, it’s like a really competitive space, and you’d better be compelling people to read or you’re going to be lost. Nobody’s just going to start reading a bunch of gray copy with no context.
Max Branstetter 21:26
I think you’re stalking me more than Bob Odenkirk stalked you. Because the author of that book, Information Anxiety, Richard Saul Wurman, we actually had him on this podcast back episode. 254. That’s
Scott Dikkers 21:41
crazy. Yeah, that was very influential book for me.
Max Branstetter 21:46
That’s awesome. That’s so cool to hear it come full circle. Here’s an I forget his birthday. But at the time of the recording, he was 88 years old. I was gonna say it’s gonna be a damned old man at this point. Definitely the the wisest guests that we’ve had on. But in terms of feedback for the episodes, it’s really interesting, because I don’t know if you’ve heard interviews or watched interviews with him. I’ve not, he is so particular, so detail oriented, and also so kind of, I don’t know, his way or the highway, ie, that he’s a little rough around the edges. So that interview is kind of polarizing, some people really liked it. I mean, he wrote all these books, he’s created the TED conference, Ted, like it’s, he’s got an incredible story. But he also basically, he also basically, when I start off the interview, just asked how he was today. He said, That’s a stupid question.
Scott Dikkers 22:33
I’ll have to listen. I’ll have to listen.
Max Branstetter 22:35
Appreciate it. So shoutout RSW. But no, that’s a really brilliant strategy behind the headlines there. And in terms of growth, and getting in front of more people, what do you think were the key inflection points in terms of growing the circulation, if you will have done you know, over the years, you
Scott Dikkers 22:53
know, we got really lucky, because we were published free on the street in Madison, Wisconsin, people who saw it, and were inspired by what it could be, would try to come and write for us, you know, and so we had a lot of disaffected, smart, just really funny people who kind of banged on our door. And through a process of attrition, we collected this group of like the best and the brightest of them. And the material was just really, really good. And it kept getting better, because we’re all kind of obsessed with making it as good as we can be. So, you know, some of our key writers like Todd Hansen and John Crewson. And Rob Segal, Carol Kolb, Maria Schneider, you know, they were some of the early people who just nailed this amazing voice. And when I say voice, I don’t mean like the fake news, AP style. I mean, like the soul behind that, you know, they were able to encapsulate so much about modern American life, it was just like such a treat for them in such a, such a lifeline for them to have the soapbox, you know, and so they really cared and they really worked hard to make their stuff work. That consistency of like continuing to produce that quality was a big help. The other thing that really helped us move the needle in terms of growing circulation and stuff, was when we would get in trouble when we would piss off the governor. And the governor would threaten to sue, the local press would write about it, you know, and so we get these little write ups. And we craved those things, you know, any kind of mentioned in the press or whatever. And I think our radio show helps spread the word like Howard Stern would play the skit and then he would talk about how great the onion was for a couple of minutes after the radio skit when the internet happened People before the internet, people were emailing people stories that they saw in the onion, they type them out and just email them with no attribution. One day on the NPR show car talk, they read one of our stories, word for word, the whole story, and laughed and laughed and laughed. But they didn’t know where it came from was just somebody emailed it to them. And they were like, and I don’t know who wrote this, but it’s really funny. Anyway, we called them and told them that it was us. And so on the next show, they told everybody that it was from the onion that the onion super funny. So those little like media hits, you know, where people discovered it. And then I think going online to is crucial, because we were the first humor website, and there were like, 10 websites. So if you’re going to go online, you’re probably going to see the onion. And my god, that was just like, what a once in a millennia opportunity to get in on the ground floor of just an explosive new media. sheer luck, you know, not sheer luck. I mean, it was on sheer luck. Yeah, well, we were dogged enough to pursue it and get on there. But, you know, you can’t count on that kind of an opportunity. That was pretty damn lucky. And then so everybody’s writing about us, then it’s like, We’re the new kid on the block. And we have TV shows are coming to our offices to, you know, interview us, and we’re in all the magazines and everything, and then it Yeah, the ad staff always pounding the pavement sell ads, which is how we made our money. And the more popular we could get it, the easier it was for them to sell the ads, you know,
Max Branstetter 26:43
how does it feel to, to have the had that platform and be in a position where you’re actually incentivized to, like, piss people off and draw more attention to stuff?
Scott Dikkers 26:53
Yeah, I mean, I don’t think we ever saw it as, hey, let’s piss people off. We were just trying to be as funny as possible and try to make it really, really funny. And sometimes when you’re funny, you’re on the edge and you piss people off. And to us, it was always pretty amusing whenever somebody would get pissed off, because my god, it’s just comedy, you know, we’re just making fun. So that was what you know, fueled me and I think I can speak for everyone on the staff. It was just the this goal of making it as funny as possible is really all we cared about.
Max Branstetter 27:30
Speaking of comedy, and creativity, you can get your last chance to fix for some of that in Cleveland, Ohio, shout out alliteration. By signing up for CEX Content Entrepreneur Expo, if you’re listening this the week this episode drops, it is literally your last chance because it is May 5 through seventh 2024. In Cleveland, Ohio, use promo code or coupon code MAX100 For $100 off any in person ticket, you just might see BJ Novak and Joe Pulizzi. There and lots of fellow cool, funny creative people as well. That is at cx dot events and use that code. Now let’s break it down and literally break down what goes into a joke. So one of the thing themes, I just combined the words, themes and themes, which I’m just gonna go to sleep now. But that has been instrumental to the audience success that you’ve mentioned, is maintaining that emphasis on quality, maintaining, maintaining that emphasis on humor. Like no matter what, even if you have a golden opportunity, you can grab a great, you know, website, you can be one of the first movers in something, it’s not going to matter that much if you can’t deliver on the content and the quality, right? So you team nailed that out of the park. So I’d love to pivot a little to writing jokes in the actual writing of humor, writing funny stuff, you’ve as your personal brand, if we can call it you’ve carved a niche in this space, which is really, really cool. You’ve got a best selling book on it. It’s one of the most fascinating things that not as many people talk about. It’s like, what actually goes into humor like what makes stuff funny. So to start off, what are some, some tips or kind of basic points you can share for, for writing a great joke.
Scott Dikkers 29:27
I just got done watching this CNN series about comedy. It was really funny to hear interview, they interviewed so many different comedians. This is like from about five years ago. And there was one episode where they asked them all what’s the difference between parody and satire. And they all pretended not to know they all pretended to sort of make a joke about it. Like they didn’t know and that’s typically and historically what comedians and comedy writers do. They want to perpetuate this myth that it’s a big mystery. theory there, I don’t know, I just, you know, just comes out of my head. And that always bothered me when I was starting out, I really wanted to know how you do it. And after my decades at the onion, I felt like, Okay, I know how to do it got a pretty good system. And I think I can explain to people how it works, and not just how to write an onion story about how to do any comedy, because so many people leave the onion and they go off, and they succeed in other fields. Because the onion is all about the fundamentals of comedy. It’s just by happenstance that we’re in this news parody format that we’re in prose, though, obviously, overtime, the onion has done plenty of video and audio as well. I wanted to write a book, and it’s called How to write funny and it’s just the methods that you use to come up with comedy. That works. And yeah, the main core of the of that are these tools, the 11 Funny filters, I contend that there are really only 11 Different things that make an idea. Funny, like professionally funny. When you hear it, you you really realize oh, okay, that is a joke. That is the language of humor. It is meant to be funny. And you usually laugh, some people laugh at stuff like that as a knee jerk reaction, because they hear the language and like, ah, but obviously, we want real laugh, you
Max Branstetter 31:19
want the that was a great fake laugh. By the way, you’ve nailed that as well. Believe me, I
Scott Dikkers 31:24
can fake laugh with the best of them. Because it’s often the only you’re gonna get from me, the way that those funny filters work to create professional humor is very simple. Part of it is, like I said, understanding the language of comedy and knowing that this is the language number two is using them in, they each kind of have different rules and best practices or whatever. So using them in the proper way. heightening them using them turned up to 11, like the maximum amount that you can use, and then mixing them so that you don’t just have like a one note idea or one note joke. Your joke has layers as different types of humor. Generally, it’s going to be funnier because everybody walking around has a different sense of humor. They respond better to different funny filters. That’s kind of what makes up your sense of humor. It’s kind of like in DnD with the Strength, Dexterity, wisdom. We all have like a different level of each funny filter in our own personal sense of humor in our head.
Max Branstetter 32:25
Real quick on that. What do you think are like the biggest influences to crafting that like, oh, this person really likes puns? This person really likes dirty jokes. Like what goes into that?
Scott Dikkers 32:37
You might as well be asking, like, how do you catch a rainbow? It’s like, you know, somebody else?
Max Branstetter 32:41
Next question, actually.
Scott Dikkers 32:42
Yeah, they have their life experiences. They read this book or that book, watch the show or that show? And, yeah, it’s like, it’s different as a fingerprint. Everybody’s gonna have a different makeup, you know,
Max Branstetter 32:53
I’m not going to make you reveal all 11 Funny filters, but is there like, just a couple that you could share with like a brief example of what that actually looks like? Sounds like actually, yeah,
Scott Dikkers 33:05
one of them that’s really easy to understand is irony. Where you just say the opposite of what you mean. Some people think sarcasm is irony, but it’s not quite sarcasm is irony, where you’re revealing that, you know, it’s irony. Irony is when you don’t reveal that you know, as irony, you deadpan, say the opposite of what you think, or write the opposite of what you believe. So that’s pretty simple. Another one, that I’m a big fan of is madcap, which is, like wacky physical humor, funny voices, silly made up sounds, and any sort of crap falling or, you know, things that you do with your body that are just crazy and wacky. Love that one?
Max Branstetter 33:49
Is that slapstick? Is that the same?
Scott Dikkers 33:52
I would encompass slapstick in that funny filter? Absolutely. Of the 11.
Max Branstetter 33:56
So you might even have to reveal another one. You never know. What do you think is most commonly used these days, like at the time of this recording, the shows that are on TV, the shows that we’re streaming, like what started comedy seems to resonate with people right now?
Scott Dikkers 34:09
Well, the type of comedy that resonates with people is individual depending on the person, but there are certain trends in the different generations. And it’s funny, I just wrote a piece about this today. The baby boomers really liked shock humor and political references. And Gen Z really likes madcap non sequitur humor, particularly with very layered references, like deep meaningful references, universal human foibles, references to other things in the culture, things like that. But a good show is going to pretty much use all of them
Max Branstetter 34:51
because their sweet spot of like you know, if you use two or three filters like this is going to crank out the Willy Wonka everlasting gobstopper of jokes.
Scott Dikkers 34:58
A great Joe can have just one funny filter, a great joke can use all 11. There’s no real quantifier involved. It’s all sort of qualifiers, you know, because he like if he listened to a stand up performance, for example, a stand up bet might start with a reference joke, they’ll bring up something in daily life that you’ve experienced, and you’ll get a little recognition and that’ll be funny. And then they’ll hyperbolized it, they’ll exaggerate it for the next beat of the joke. And they might do irony, and then they might do a character acting out something having to do with this thing. So they’re just constantly, you know, dialing a different funny filter, which keeps it funny and interesting. And some of those jokes are gonna have many funny filters mixed in those usually the ones that do the best, because like I said, You’re reaching more people, you’re reaching people who, you know, maybe the only one you like, is hyperbole. So if they never do hyperbole, you’re gonna be a guy. I don’t like that comedian. But if they work it in once in a while, you’re gonna like that comedian.
Max Branstetter 36:02
What’s your process for? I guess, gathering the Intel for writing a joke that you think is at least satisfactory for your standards. I
Scott Dikkers 36:13
have used many different processes over the years and decades when I was editor of the onion, and I had to produce a lot of material. Like every writer, including the editor comes to the weekly meeting with 25 ideas, you can’t depend on inspiration. So you have to sit down at a blank piece of paper and just churn out the ideas, which is pretty brutal. Nowadays, I’m not on that kind of grueling treadmill. So my current method, which I really like is, whenever I think of a an idea, or notice something in the world, that strikes me as funny, I just make a voice note on my phone. And then later, I listened to those. And if I still think they’re funny, later, I’ll put them in a document, I’ll write them out. And then when it comes time to write a joke, I’ll look at those and see if anything strikes me as good enough subtext or good enough observation to base a joke on, and then try to start incorporating the funny filters to work that into a joke.
Max Branstetter 37:13
How many drafts would you say, one of your typical jokes takes?
Scott Dikkers 37:16
Oh, it’s impossible to calculate, because you’re constantly tweaking, constantly redoing? You know? And how many drafts do you even do before it becomes a totally different joke? And then do those old drafts count? You know, you’re just constantly changing and warping. And sometimes you’re not sometimes it comes out semi fully formed, you know? So it’s definitely a mix.
Max Branstetter 37:40
What’s the main way that you think like, preparation for writing, you know, really funny. long form content compares to like prepping for a stand up routine?
Scott Dikkers 37:51
It’s a great question. And it really depends on the writer and the performer. So everybody generally has a sort of mode that works best for them that feeds their muse the best. Some people are performance based. So if they get talking, they’re going to really zero in on the funny. Other people are more writerly. So they sit and they start typing. And that really helps them zero in on the funny sometimes some people can be both. But you know, depending on what your style is, like, there’s no correlation, like some people who are really performance focused end up being writers. And so their process might be to talk it out with somebody, you know, and riff with somebody then sit down and kind of type it out, articulate what they just came up with. There’s a lot of standups, George Carlin immediately leaps to mind, who later in his career, considered himself a writer who performs his own material, as opposed to a comedian who writes his own material. He was primarily a writer, he wrote everything out. And he memorized it like poetry, and would recite it, you know, and a lot of stand ups don’t do that. A lot of stand ups, right on stage, they go on stage, and they just start talking to people and then they discover what’s funny there. And they work that into their bits. So that there It runs the gamut, you know, from all the way one way to all the way the other way.
Max Branstetter 39:20
Speaking of running the gamut, let’s run our way to rapid fire q&a. You ready for it? Let’s do it. All right, let’s get wild. Or as you said, at the start, we’re gonna get businessy we’re gonna get growth. We’re gonna get podcast and I’ll just go, let’s go wild. What is the the actual story behind the name The Onion?
Scott Dikkers 39:38
Tim and Chris two guys who started it used to eat raw onion on untoasted white bread for breakfast.
Max Branstetter 39:45
Wait, seriously, that’s not a joke. It’s not a joke. Wow. All right, it’s fitting. All right. What if you had to pick one what is an article from the onion in any era? That was like very much One bullet for a specific reason. It
Scott Dikkers 40:02
was an editorial by the CEO of the Gillette razor company. And the headline was Fuckit. We’re doing five blades. And it’s one of my favorite stories super funny, recommend googling it and reading it. And it’s memorable because we thought it was hyperbole. But a few months later, Gillette unveiled the five bladed razor.
Max Branstetter 40:25
Wow, that’s, that’s brilliant all around. That one really got me who’s, you know, we went through your, your gauntlet of celebrities at the start of this interview. But looking back to all the people you’ve met, who’s somebody that you met in person who was like, the funniest sidesplitting lat like would just make the whole room crack up no matter what they did?
Scott Dikkers 40:47
There’s a couple one is definitely Chris Farley. And another very similar character was a comedian by the name of Dave Gray, who was a comedian and Madison and he won like the funniest person in Wisconsin competition a couple of times. He was a guy who just lived stand up comedy. I went to see him perform. And he just he had lived his whole act, improvised his whole hour and it was just hysterically funny. And I ran into him on a plane once we flew on a flight back to Madison one time, and he was cracking jokes on the plane to everybody on the plane. He turned the shuttle bus from the plane to the rental car center into his own Comedy Club and just entertain everybody on the bus. Just an incredible figure but he died of epilepsy. Unfortunately. epileptic seizure like around the year 2000, I believe.
Max Branstetter 41:45
Wow, she’s incredible. A lot of late legends we’re uncovering here, but you gotta You gotta love a comedy bus session that actually might my high school baseball coach tried to do that one time. All the Dangerfield one liners. And I think most of the baseball team was not familiar with Dangerfield at all. So it did not. You did not get no respect. But if you could show one comedy movie, like the funniest movie you’ve ever seen, and broadcast it at the Sphere in Las Vegas for people to watch on that crazy screen? What would you choose?
Scott Dikkers 42:23
That would have to be Airplane! Funniest movie ever.
Max Branstetter 42:28
More airplane stories. And then last one if somebody asks you for just a one-liner or a quick dad joke, what’s your go to?
Scott Dikkers 42:37
I I have to pass because I just I hate the idea of Ted jokes. Is such a cliche. And yeah, I’m gonna pull a what’s his name? From information anxiety on? Yeah, and and not do that one.
Max Branstetter 42:51
All right. Well, we start off with wonderful questions and was stupid ones. Scott, thank you so much. This has just been awesome, endlessly fascinated by what you do. And everything with the audience story, your behind the scenes joke story and beyond. Where’s the best place for people to if they want to connect and learn more about you online? Or to grab a copy of one of your books?
Scott Dikkers 43:14
Yeah, they can certainly grab my books, they can google me in the computer, I show up pretty readily. easiest place to find me nowadays is on Substack I do a daily column with creativity, inspiration and motivation. I really, you know, respond and engage with everybody who’s on there. More than just about any other platform.
Max Branstetter 43:34
Perfect. And then last thing, final thoughts, usually as guests for their second favorite dad joke, but I’m gonna skip that one for now. But final thoughts. It could just be like a quote, one line, word of wisdom. Whatever you want. Just bring us home here.
Scott Dikkers 43:48
A quote, a line. Word of Wisdom.
Max Branstetter 43:53
You nailed it.
Scott Dikkers 43:54
That’s it. Yeah, it’s gonna be it’s gonna be real simple. And I’m just gonna say have fun. Because a lot of people like are interested in comedy, and they maybe they want to do comedy. I think it’d be fun. They don’t realize it’s hard work. But like it really shouldn’t. You should do things that you think are fun, like don’t do something that’s painful or, like too hot. If it’s too hard. You want to give up you just give up like, I really think life is short goes by really fast. We should enjoy what we’re doing.
Max Branstetter 44:25
Great stuff from Scott, or shortened. Great Scott. Thank you so much, Scott, for coming on the podcast sharing the wonderfully tasty Onion story, as well as how to write funny all things jokes inside and out. And thank you, Wild Listeners, for tuning in to another episode. If you want to hear more Wild stories like this one, make sure to subscribe or follow the Wild Business Growth podcast on your favorite podcast platform, as well as on YouTube for the video versions. YouTube is @MaxBranstetter. You can also find us on Goodpods, where there are Good podcast recommendations. And for any help with podcast production, you can learn more at MaxPodcasting.com and sign up for the Podcasting to the Max newsletter. That is where podcasting meets entrepreneurship, and jokes worth the fifth blade. And you can sign up at MaxPodcasting.com/Newsletter. Until next time, let your business Run Wild…Bring on the Bongos!!
