This is the full transcript for Episode #266 of the Wild Business Growth Podcast featuring Nicole Zeno – Small Business Director, Founder of Clever Cow Media. You can listen to the interview and learn more here. Please note: this transcript is not 100% accurate.
Nicole Zeno 0:00
Why did the Scarecrow get an award?
Max Branstetter 0:18
Mooooove on over Welcome back to the Wild Business Growth Podcast. This is your place to hear from a new entrepreneur every single Wednesday morning who’s turing Wild ideas into Wild growth. I’m your host, Max Branstetter, Founder and Podcast Producer at MaxPodcasting. And you can email me at to save time with your high-quality podcast. This is Episode 266. That’s all the singing you’re gonna get from me. And today’s guest is Nicole Zeno. Nicole is the Founder and CEO of Clever Cow Media, which is not a farm Believe it or not, but they help small businesses and startups make more mu law. See I’m not the only one with a fantastic sense of humor. In this episode, we talk how you could revamp your business by diving into the data and revamping your processes, processes processes. We’ll debate about that. We talk getting your business to the point that you can take a little bit of time off and still be okay with it. And everything from the Smashing Pumpkins and yellow card to some of the most clever get it dad jokes you will ever hear. It is Zeno and she knows where to find a Clever Cow. Enjoyyyyyyy the showwwwwww!
Aaaaalrightyyyy we are here with Nicole Zeno, the Founder and CEO of Clever Cow Media, which is close to my heart because a family business I grew up with my parents started the year I was born is Hippo Direct. So we got cows, hippos, I’m sure we’ll come across some other animals and animal businesses as well. But animal businesses that could be lead people in totally different direction. But anyway, Nicole, thank you so much for joining. How are you doing today?
Nicole Zeno 2:16
I’m doing well. How are you? I mean, thank you for having me, this is wonderful. And I’m sure we’ll come up with some animal related businesses, we’ll see.
Max Branstetter 2:25
Of course, and actually, right here, I have a copy of the book Animal Farm and what we’re gonna know, that was awful. But no, I really, really excited to speak with you and of course, love the business name, but love anybody in the Marketing and Entrepreneurship space and been studying those areas for a long time and, and doing them for a while. And it’s really cool to see when people have brought that to life and kind of did it on their own terms. So we’re gonna get to that. But before that, so you are trained, educated, I don’t know the right term at the School of Visual Arts, what got you interested in the visual artistry space.
Nicole Zeno 3:08
For me personally, picking a college seemed like the worst thing I ever had to do. And honestly, even after building businesses and all of that, like that year of having to like pick what I was going to do for the rest of my life, still is one of the most stressful points in my life, because I liked. And I was interested in a lot of different things. And one of the main things I was interested in is creative problem solving, which you can guess is why I ended up in business. But my parents owned a small business that did a software development and website design and development. And I was really into the visual art portion of it spends a lot of time in the art room, like everyone says, I wasn’t very popular in high school.
Max Branstetter 3:51
You take that back, you only the cool kids say that, right.
Nicole Zeno 3:53
But I spent a lot of time in the art rooms and I had a portfolio and I’m not as great at math and you know, taking tests and all that. And so when I took my SATs, I dreaded not having to take them again. And I went to a portfolio night with my art portfolio and got accepted into like five different schools, including the School of Visual Arts, which is one of the only accredited art universities in the country, except for color is the only other one great program. And I said wonderful. Let’s Let’s go do it. So I’ve started in computer Arts, which I thought was going to be more around web design and design and it ends up being animation and video, which was a happy surprise. But I also didn’t want to go work for Pixar. So you know, that’s what they were basically setting you up for. And a lot of my peers did go work for places like Pixar and ILM and DreamWorks and all those places and I ended up in LA working, directing and producing music videos because I love to music. So that’s kind of where my story started.
Max Branstetter 4:59
Do you have a favorite piece of art that you did? Before College?
Nicole Zeno 5:03
This is gonna sound really nerdy, but I started the stained glass club in junior high and
Max Branstetter 5:09
Oh, same.
Nicole Zeno 5:11
Sounds like really seriously? No.
Max Branstetter 5:15
Did we just become best friends?
Nicole Zeno 5:17
I think we did. No. And honestly, we were just decorating for Christmas and my mom still has this wreath I made for her in junior high that she puts up every year. So between that one and I have a fingerpainting from like kindergarten, that’s actually pretty good that my parents put with they have a Ramiro Brito and Peter Max and they put my finger painting right next to it. So there we go.
Max Branstetter 5:43
No, the bez such a, a wonderful gift to have around the house and stained glass club. I think that’s the first time I’ve heard it. But I love it that lets creativity points on the ground all around and around, I guess. I don’t know. But like, what got you what was the difference from just being like, Oh, I like stained glass to Let’s actually create a club and let make this kind of a social thing as well.
Nicole Zeno 6:06
You know, I think my entire life, I’ve looked at building community. It’s this weird thing where like, you’re kind of an introvert and want to not be around people. But then also you crave this community of people who are like you. And I think that that’s where things like podcasts, and these YouTube shows that they really thrive is because we’re all looking for someone who’s going through what we’re going through likes the things we like, and wants that you know, community. And so for me, it was always finding like, who else is weird, like me who else wants to do these things? My parents also really made sure that we always had after school activities to do we had to sign up for something athletic and something creative, like every year. And so when I didn’t find what I wanted to do, already out there, I would always go just create it. And I guess that’s was a telling points of what was gonna happen in the future, even though I didn’t know it at the time.
Max Branstetter 7:04
Oh, that’s good foreshadowing. I think, I think that goes back to entrepreneurial parents or parents with the small business is that I feel like more often than not, they do encourage you to kind of carve your own path and create something if it’s not there already. So that’s an awesome trait to share within the family, but also to like, encourage your kid to do as they progressed to that life, we can’t move on without hitting on music videos. So what exactly did you do in the music video? World?
Nicole Zeno 7:31
Funny that you said about the entrepreneurial family in my household, it was like normal household, you say you want to start a business. And parents are like, Oh, my gosh, you need security. In my household, my brother decided he didn’t want to be an entrepreneur anymore. And he wants to go work for a big corporation. And it was like, Wait, you’re not going to be an entrepreneur like, so I was really lucky.
Max Branstetter 7:54
What is wrong with it?
Nicole Zeno 7:55
He was like he has by everyone else’s like standards. He has the most amazing job. He’s very successful for his age. And my parents were like, Wait, you’re not going to be an entrepreneur and create your own stuff. Like you don’t have a boss. That’s weird. It’s
Max Branstetter 8:09
quite quite the family when the black sheep is like, oh, man, you go to like a great company with a great salary and have less to worry about and man was just such a shame. You
Nicole Zeno 8:19
have shares of the company. What that’s weird. Retirement Plan. But anyway. Yeah, so your question about music videos. So I always loved music. I am instrumental ly challenged, I cannot play an instrument. I never was in a band. But I grew up in like a small, suburban neighborhood in Long Island, New York. And we had this little venue where all the best like emo pop rock bands would come through. And my best friend’s older brother would like sneak us in and just loved music. My dad loved music growing up. And so when I realized I was a really good storyteller, and I wanted to tell stories, I started looking into music videos, and really was born in the wrong time for it, but went out to LA anyway found the best director in the rock world, interned for him and started directing and producing my own videos. And then realize that there was kind of this gap in where music was going. So So historically, people would tour and they would sell a lot of records and you would like wait outside and meet the band and become part of that community. And that’s what really drew me to music was the community. As things were changing where record sales were down, record labels started taking money from the band’s merch sales, and they started doing like VIP meet and greets. So you weren’t able to like stay after it meet the band and all this stuff. And so me and my brother, I decided we needed to build this app where bands can connect with their fans. So in real time, they can go on stage and say like, you know, What song do you want us to play next or what color shirt t shirt should I wear in in real time they can vote on it and see that information and really start interacting. And that was my first like dabble into WoW, being a director and being a business owner or founder, like have a lot of the same skills and passions and things to do. And that’s just kind of where the lead came from the
Max Branstetter 10:20
leap into music partnership. You mentioned some very nostalgic genres there. Did you have any, like favorite bands to work with, or, or even like dream bands that going back in time you’re like, Oh, I would love to partner with them?
Nicole Zeno 10:38
Well, I actually got to work with a few of my dream bands. So the first band I worked with when I moved out to LA was smashing pumpkins. Yeah, I didn’t direct that video by any means. I was like, you know, a small person on set. But it was one of those moments where you were like, right out of college, and you’re in, you know, la at a house where the Smashing Pumpkins are. And it was just, it felt really surreal. But I got to work with yellow card and saosin. And like, all these great bands that I grew up listening to, so it was a lot of fun. Despite
Max Branstetter 11:13
all my rage, I know, I’m just getting started.
Nicole Zeno 11:19
But are we gonna just start getting email here? Yes, I’m okay. I think so.
Max Branstetter 11:25
The world is a vampire. But no, they’re awesome. No, I wish I saw them live. I did actually see back when I grew up in Cleveland. And back when they had like the knockoff X Games, the Gravity Games in Cleveland. They had really, really good bands there. So I saw like Jane’s Addiction there, Sum 41, Filter, and then Yellowcard, actually around the time I was in the Yellowcard. So small world, it’s all it’s all connected. But those are that’s that’s a really, really fun way to start your career. Speaking of career, we should probably talk about clever cow. So let’s get to Clever Cow Media. And I know there’s many steps along the way before that. But in addition to the music world, what would what would you say? Was like the most foundational for you that helped you, you know, achieve success once you did start your own thing with clever cow media.
Nicole Zeno 12:20
I think the foundational piece was just really figuring out and successes. Funny. So that’s a funny way to ask the question, because my No, no, it’s okay. It’s my gut reaction is to talk about like, all the failures, right? Like, I feel like up until recently, like, it’s totally welcome to success is not really, you know, part of it right. And by all means, you can look at my revenue, you can look at all the things we’ve done, and we’ve had a lot of success, right. But really, where the success comes in for me is finding the mission and the value and making sure that we’re really, we’re really hitting on that. So for me, I always came back to SMBs. Startups, right. The people who I saw really early on how one small business can change my family, it changed the employees who worked for my parents, their families, it changed our community, right. And so I always tried to come back to small businesses, even when I was working in music bands are essentially small businesses, right? They’re their own small businesses. And so I always kept coming back to that. And after I had started a few companies and exited them, I started clever cow with the intent to help small businesses I saw where there was like a gap in how they marketed, how they think about strategy, how they think about budget, things like that, and really wanted to kind of build products that can help them and didn’t see anyone else really doing that out there. What I learned really quickly is the reason they weren’t doing that out there is because small businesses generally don’t have budgets, they don’t have large strategies. They don’t have executive teams who are helping them figure out what is marketing and what they need to be doing. Right. Generally, it’s the owner or, you know, the CEO, kind of doing everything themselves. There’s lots of bottlenecks, things like that, that make it really hard to help small businesses, I want to help you guys, just let me help you. And so it took a lot of time. And I fell into the same trap as everyone else is I built a marketing agency, and we had people that we had to pay and we had to bring in bigger projects. And long and behold, I was working with companies that were not the companies I was looking for. And I was feeling like a failure even though I was a success. And so recently, we actually went through a transition, where I said, That’s it. I’m going to figure this out. I’m going to figure out how do we help small businesses and startups what do they really need? And we started building products for them. And it really, even though we’re in that transition space, it’s really felt like more of his success and then ever before And you know, really working with people who are making a difference in their communities is really where I love to be. It’s
Max Branstetter 15:08
a beautiful thing when you basically get through all the shit and then find clarity and figure out what actually like, Oh, this is what I need to focus on right now. Or like, this is how we move the business forward. And I think it can take so long to get there when you’re like kind of just going day to day with so many different projects or like so many things story about how did you start to put the branding together for clever cow in the first place like we’ve talked about, but it’s a really fun name. Fun, fun logo. Bonus points for alliteration. Smashing Pumpkins would say zero points. I can’t stop. What? But like, how did you start to actually put it a branding face on this brand?
Nicole Zeno 15:52
Oh, you know, everyone expects this really a magical story. I get asked all the time, if I’m from Wisconsin, really?
Max Branstetter 16:01
What’s my next question?
Nicole Zeno 16:03
There you go. Ah, really what happened was it was during that time I come from the tech sector. So we started building apps, we did a few other tech companies. And it was during the time where people were putting like blue lemur. Like taking just two random words and putting them together and building a company. You’re talking
Max Branstetter 16:20
about the yogurt company space as well.
Nicole Zeno 16:24
Now, it’s just an ampersand in between. But before it was just two words, right. And my dog she is she’s a little 30 pound dog. And she is white with a few spots. And she always used to graze. And so it was 2am. We were like, We need to come up with a name. We need to come up with some branding. Nothing was working. We were trying to like reinvent Google. And I randomly said, clever cow. We make you more moolah, and everyone just loved it. And it just stuck. And it just it ended up being a thing. So now it’s everywhere. And now people buy me cow items. tchotchkes, like, I have a wind chime. They think I love cows. And I do but everyone just buys me cow things. No, it’s pretty interesting.
Max Branstetter 17:13
That’s so funny how it happened. Like, my parents business. So like the business before was Heights International Publishing. So HIP. And then my dad was like, we should turn this into like a an animal and like a fun thing. So hip became hippo. And oh, I love stories like that of the background behind it. Like, it doesn’t often start with like, oh, this person just really loves that animal. And then it’s a thing. Like, it’s actually kind of back into it. And oh, it sticks. And now next thing you know, you’re gonna be keynoting, the Wisconsin State Fair, I feel like, oh,
Nicole Zeno 17:43
let’s put it out into the universe. Let’s do it. I feel like I always tell people with branding, it’s like, it’s like falling in love. Right? You get that? Like, it could look amazing. And it could have all the right colors. And then you move one thing and you get that like feeling I always call it the feeling. And like you get that feeling in your gut where you’re like, ah, that’s it, right? And it’s the same thing you you can pick the best name, you know, AI can pick all the greatest names. But until you get that feeling it’s not right.
Max Branstetter 18:11
So what’s the best feeling for you in terms of your favorite type of projects to work on for clients? Like what what really gets you excited in terms of helping other businesses?
Nicole Zeno 18:23
Yeah, there’s two, there’s the one type is the ones where they’ve been like, banging their heads against the wall, like I have an issue, how do I fix it cannot figure it out. And come in and kind of look through one of my zones of genius is like really looking at data looking at what has happened and kind of figuring out how do we fix a problem that’s we’re kind of stuck on, those are really enjoyable, because a small tweak can make a huge difference. And this is why you know, a lot of our products in clever cow really come at the place of like, you can build a house, right? You’re not gonna go to Home Depot, pick up some two by fours and start building. You need blueprints, and you want it, you have a strategy, and you have a contractor. Right? And what a lot of businesses do, what I find is that they actually go to Home Depot, and they try to start building the house, right, and they have none of the strategy. And this happens a lot in small business. And so my second type of project I really like to work on are the ones where we get the chance to actually build things out the processes out correctly. And everyone thinks because we’re a marketing company, and I know that that’s kind of our tagline, that we just do social media and make things look pretty but really building out a process that’s going to help people scale that’s going to be repeatable, that’s going to be maybe automated, so that small businesses, startups, they have a really unique situation where they have to get the most done with the least amount of resources, the least amount of budget and the least amount of time. And so being that I’ve come from the spot of being that founder, knowing what data points and KPIs, I would want to see, and knowing that I have to do those things in the least amount of time with the least amount of budget and the least amount of resources, has put me in a unique position and my team in a unique position to really think through those pieces. And that strategy piece is really the one that I truly have been on a soapbox about to small businesses that until you have those blueprints, our products, you basically come to us and you have the blueprints at the end. So now you can go and build a team internally or hire an agency or whatnot, and know that the moves you’re making are actually going to get you to your goal. That’s the thing that really gives me that feel right. Like that’s the thing is when when someone has that confidence that they’re making the right decision, and not just trying something. And
Max Branstetter 20:54
the most amazing thing is that you do all that wall listening to yellow card on repeat in the background is it’s impressive. It’s a lot of, you know, a mix of whatever genre you consider them and the violin, viola thing, but I love it. There’s a couple of different points there. And I think both like, totally agree huge formational foundational to businesses, whichever one of those words you prefer. So the first part is like digging into the data, and then seeing what tweaks you can make to see results in the business. So what’s your approach for that, like, we’ve never lived in a better time to have data at our fingertips on like, anything we want, except for like, podcast data that needs to come along way still. But like, what’s your approach of like going through, like, you know, the sea of data to, you know, see what pops out at you that you can make changes to a business. The
Nicole Zeno 21:44
funny part about what you just said is that most small businesses don’t have a CEA data, they could, but they don’t.
Max Branstetter 21:51
Maybe it’s like a small pot of data.
Nicole Zeno 21:53
Yeah, the first step is always setting up the data, right? Most of those, there’s lots of tools out there, including free ones like Google Analytics, that you can set up your data. And it depends on what type of business you are, right? So obviously, if you’re a retail, brick and mortar shop, then maybe it’s a POS system, maybe it’s appointments and CRMs. But if you’re an eCommerce shop, which most people have nowadays, even if you’re a retail, it’s you know, the Google Analytics, it’s the customer journey and the funnel and knowing that data, and the first step to anything is, is setting up the data. Most of these tools don’t backfill data, they only forward filled data. And quite frankly, you can’t make decisions in your business. If you don’t know data. Like I don’t know how many times I’ve talked to someone and ask them, what’s your cash flow? Or what’s your p&l, and they don’t even know what I’m talking about. So I personally cannot make decisions in my business without looking at what is going on in the business every day, right? And there’s plenty of big names like Warren Buffett, who says like you cannot run your business without knowing these numbers. And so marketers in general tend to shy away from data because it makes them accountable for the outcomes. And they can’t just say you have great engagement, right? Burn. I know, I know, I know, I’m sorry, marketers, I’m sorry. I don’t consider myself a marketer. So so that kind of goes there. But marketers Gen tend to, like shy away from data because any business owner knows that followers don’t equal revenue, right? Not necessarily at least. And so we need to make sure that we have the data. So then the next step to that is once we have the data, figuring out what is our goals, what are our goals in the next 235 years, and figuring out what KPIs success looks like. So just because you have a goal of having more orders or more revenue, okay, what does that mean? Does that mean $10,000? More, does that mean a million dollars more, if you know that you want a certain amount of orders. While does that mean increasing your your conversion rate, does that mean bringing in more traffic. And so until you know that information, you really can’t build, test or AB test or really know where to put your time and energy because just because I give you 10% More traffic on your website doesn’t mean you’re going to convert if you don’t have a conversion rate. And so you can spend a lot of money on ads, bringing in people that never convert, and all you needed was a email nurture or an abandoned cart, right? So these are the pieces so once you have the data, really looking at how does that data relate to your customer journey, your funnel, and then tweaking things based on that and I think our lives as business owners, we’re always going to be tweaking, but I just filmed a whole video about this because we can go really far in depth and I’m sure you don’t want to talk too far into this but data is going to be your best friend’s dad
Max Branstetter 24:50
is always valuable. And that was a really great rundown there of from like setting up to be able to receive data and look at day Data, data, data, both data and data, to analyze it, and then figure out like how to apply it back to your business, which is really important. From your experience across, you know, a variety of different businesses. What is it about certain data points or data points that like something kind of flies off the page to you or flies off the screen to you of like, oh, wait a second, let’s dig more in here.
Nicole Zeno 25:24
I think it’s really around, where we’re spending our money and time in terms of developing the product, right. So like, let’s say I worked with an app company. And they’re spending a ton of time on this feature, but they have no data around if customers actually want that feature, or looking at your Product Funnel, or your staffs, stickiness or churn and not relating that data back to the market fit or feature set that you’re working on. And so once again, we’re every one went into business to solve a problem for certain people to make people’s lives better. And if you’re not going back to that constantly, and going back to the people you’re serving, and the people that you’re selling to, then you’re going to spend a lot of time, money and effort on things that they may not care about at the end of the day. And that’s when the data will show that as well.
Max Branstetter 26:21
That’s one of my favorite pastimes is spending lots of time money and effort on things that people don’t care about.
Nicole Zeno 26:29
I mean, I think as entrepreneurs, I’ve done it.
Max Branstetter 26:34
The other leg that you talked about is about building things out and like figuring out, you know, what, what changes need to happen to scale businesses, and actually, like, I guess, making things more efficient. And so it’s almost more of like an ops angle. It sounds like, I know, it changes greatly by the client. But what does that typically look like the of it, a typical approach you take to that to make some changes there for the better. So
Nicole Zeno 26:58
first off, I think that most SMBs and startups are working in a reactive mode, we need more sales yesterday, we need more customers yesterday, and especially coming from the marketing angle of things because generally our customers come in because they need marketing services. And then they leave with operations and sales and all the other stuff, especially coming from marketing owners and founders generally, in list marketing way too late, right? They enlist them when they need it. And not six months earlier, and marketing and PR and things like that take time. And so generally we’re getting like yelled at that things need to happen yesterday. And when I’ve worked in corporate and when I’ve done my own businesses and things like that, what I’ve seen is that working in a proactive state actually is how the world kind of works, right? These big companies that every business owner likes to cite, right? They’re like, Oh, well pay pal does this. Well pay pal actually has a marketing team and an executive who builds out a strategy and gives their team time to build the assets they need, and to actually run the campaigns. With that being said, I think that getting everyone onto a spot where it’s a proactive state where they’re building strategy, they’re figuring out what their goals are. And they’re making sure that the activities they’re doing whether those are sales, marketing, organizational admin, are actually getting everyone to the same goal. So often, we’re spreading ourselves really thin with activities that are not really moving us forward. But we think we have to do. And instead, what we like to do is say what does success look like in the next year? Okay, if success, success is more revenue, or if success is more users, than everything we’re doing, here are the activities we should do to get us towards that, oh, there’s a new trend. That’s not going to get us there. Let’s not spend time and effort. And there’s always time to pivot, right? There’s always spaces to pivot. But we need to be able to say, We can’t do everything, here are the things we’re going to do really well this year to hit this goal. Business owners need to feel confident that they’re making that decision. They’re spending the money as an investment and not as we’re just throwing it against the wall. And marketing doesn’t work for us, which happens a lot for small business, right? And they need to make sure that that time is being spent in the right place. And then once we know something’s working, right, let’s say you guys become really great at gaining users, not having churn having people coming in and being sticky. Now, can we automate some of that and take the time that now has been used in automation or process and put that towards something else? So build first, make sure that it’s actually working the way you want it, build a process, automate it, and then move on to the next one. And I think that so often comes from that software backgrounds. Software likes to do that. And so how can you put that into process for business and building and growing business and that’s generally what we’re doing and also like, the idea that people especially business owners, we’re big thinkers, we want to save the world tomorrow. How can we do are one of save the world, right? That gets us a little closer and then pillar two that saves the world and then go and save the full world, right? So I’m, I am guilty of that I have to kind of take a step back and say, Okay, what is the goal. And that’s why strategy and spending time on strategy is really going to move you forward versus, you know, just be a waste of
Max Branstetter 30:21
time you struck a chord or hit the nail on the head, whatever idiom you want to use, but the whole proactive versus reactive thing, that’s something that, like, I’ve experienced firsthand with my podcast production business of like, this is my first time studying business. And my wife and I, when we went on our honeymoon, this past summer, it was, you know, almost three weeks of like me being totally unplugged from the business totally unplugged from the podcast, which was awesome. It was like a great change of pace. And like, obviously, honeymoon, it’s like, there’s more important things. But like, I, in addition to all like the great stuff with the honeymoon, like I was also excited just to like, let my I guess, subconscious mind work of like, like, what happens if you take three weeks off your business and off your podcast? And like, what, what are you going to come out of that afterwards in like, think about a new approach to things or like a new realization about things. And like, the main thing that I kept realizing was that I need to be way more proactive, and way more aggressive with my business. And by that I mean, you know, starting at a few years ago, like, vast majority of the business and like new clients have been from referrals and word of mouth, which is awesome, and is always like, going to be the biggest driver. It’s always like, still a big source for our business today. But like, at a certain point, there’s only so much you can grow, and you’re only relying on that. And so like, what else can you do to be more aggressive and practice from a marketing standpoint, and from a client standpoint, and so that’s kind of like a big focus for this next chapter of Mac’s podcasting, so I’m totally with you there that you like, diagnosed it perfectly. And I’m, I’m in the thick of it right now. So appreciate you sharing it.
Nicole Zeno 32:02
Hello. First off, congratulations. Second of all, I mean, we all go into business. For most of us, it’s freedom, or it’s to help people or it’s to change things. And then we end up like not being able to take three weeks off for things that are more important. And I was in that stage, right, I built a an agency where we had people and if I left, nothing happened, or my clients only wanted to talk to me, and you can’t drive every bus, right? Like you just can’t do it. And I got sick of waking up every morning and having a boss essentially, even though I left this for the freedom to be able to spend time with my family and to be able to enjoy the things that I enjoy. And I know there’s so many people out there probably listening to your podcast who feel the same way where they’re frustrated, they feel like okay, in another year, if I just work hard for another year, it’s just gonna get better. And eventually, I’ll be able to take three weeks off, and I even saw it with my dad, like growing up. There was a time where like, cruises were a big thing. Everyone was going on a cruise, and we couldn’t because there was no internet on the cruise. And my dad couldn’t be away from business, right? And I just didn’t want that. And I didn’t want that for my people who are growing businesses, and who are in small business and startup. And so if you start early, I saw this in corporate world, how did they take processes, if you build the right processes, you build the right strategies, you plan for the fact that at the end of December, maybe you let your team have two weeks off to spend time with their families for the holidays. If you plan for that it’s not going to hurt when it happens. That’s the thing like people we need to get more into this idea of building process building strategy. And too often small businesses say well I’m a one person team or even five person team. We don’t need that. And that’s just not true.
Max Branstetter 33:49
Yes, and it’s super, super important. That’s a soup I cannot talk at all. That is way more important as me pronouncing this correctly. A really important point about doing the things to allow yourself to take that time off or like when you have a big life event or something like that because that’s I mean this was my first time doing this to this extent but like the reason I was able to take obviously like I was taking off for the honeymoon, but like the reason that you know the business didn’t miss a beat over the summer when that happened was because like months in advance I gave all my clients a warning about it. I was working on episodes like well in advance had like the super detailed spreadsheets, planning everything out months in advance. And then of course with podcasts, the nice thing is like you can schedule them to come out you don’t have to touch you can schedule them in advance. So like it all goes back to that planning. We don’t need to get crazy into that now. For anyone listening that wants to know more about like how you can take three weeks off for honeymoon hit me up. Happy to talk more about that and about the honeymoon forever. But that planning and allowing yourself to do those things is super important and it is the getting the process But the press processes, right? Well, and snacks that happened, I
Nicole Zeno 35:04
saw something that really hit me hard right before the transition of our company. I literally when I’m telling you transition, we basically cut 75% of our revenue coming in so that we can transition our products and our customers. Part of it was a culmination of a lot of things. But I saw this video about the redwood trees. These are these gigantic trees that are supposed to live for like hundreds and hundreds of years. And they did an experiment where they injected them with the equivalent to them of what would be adrenaline for us, so that they wouldn’t go into hibernation this this set of trees. And these trees that are supposed to live hundreds of years died within a year because they didn’t have hibernation. And so it literally like I don’t know something about that video just woke something up inside of me that said like, that’s how I feel. And I know a lot of business owners do and what can we do? Like what do these business owners need? They don’t need just another agency that’s going to handle their social media right and tell them to dance on a video they need strategy and they need this what you’re talking about the processes in place to make it happen.
Max Branstetter 36:14
There’s a new Clever Cow slogan there be the tree via the tree hibernate. Sponsored by bears. If you’re looking for a tree for your inbox every Thursday, that includes terrible puns like that one, you could sign up for the podcasting to the max newsletter. It is where podcasting meets entrepreneurship, and terrible puns. There’s a new one every week. I mean, I don’t know how people go on about their lives while missing out on it. You could sign up at Max podcasting.com/newsletter. Now let’s get weirder and weirder and weirder. So let’s transition to a completely different note. So we’d love to dive into something I call the unusual so this is about it doesn’t have to tie back to business at all, but more you on the personality side. Just love hearing like outside of work things that are just interesting things about entrepreneurs. So pet peeves, what would you say is your biggest pet peeve?
Nicole Zeno 37:24
People who constantly complain but never do anything about it.
Max Branstetter 37:29
I hate that I will never do anything about it. But I hate that. I’ve always thought that that the more time you spend complaining about like think what you could do with all that time. That could be like a positive force in your life instead of just complaining. Oh, granted, certainly there’s always things worth complaining about. And like sometimes it’s a good like stress release or event things like that. But there’s a difference between doing that and, and complaining all the time about like miniscule things Yeah,
Nicole Zeno 37:59
I’m also the friend who jumps in and like immediately wants to fix it and find a way to fix it.
Max Branstetter 38:04
If it’s your business personality Yeah, if I’m doing the work
Nicole Zeno 38:07
why like you need to do the work to so no, I’m always here to hear people vent but there’s a difference between venting and you know, being unhappy because of it. So
Max Branstetter 38:17
what about quirks with something a little quirky about your personality that family friends team somebody calls you out for but it’s who you are.
Nicole Zeno 38:25
I am the worst at dad jokes.
Max Branstetter 38:29
I thought I was the worst go on.
Nicole Zeno 38:31
I will pull out a dad joke at any moment that is uncomfortable or needs a need some time or just because to the point where like I’ve literally have books that people have bought me that have more dead jokes in them like everyone’s always like Oh, really? I’m just weird but here’s a good animal animal one Why’d the chicken go to the seance try to get to the other side Why do I get that reaction?
Max Branstetter 39:04
Well no because I actually I didn’t get it at first but now I’m not well versed enough in seances maybe attend for free but that was a good one. I was I was chuckling I was clocking and then weird, weird talents in addition to being the dad joke queen. What is something that you are really good at besides I won’t let you say stained glass something that you just have a knack for? Ah, it’s not
Nicole Zeno 39:31
really weird but I’m I’m a really good cook. And like I I could look at a recipe and then just go completely off script and just kind of know my boyfriend’s very like he needs to have a timer for everything he cooks and I’m like just throwing things in there and it always comes out great.
Max Branstetter 39:52
Is this like I’m kind of envisioning to an extreme amount. It’s like Buddy the Elf when he has like cereal and then he has like syrup in there and then he has all the marshmallows that you know, that could get crazy pretty quickly. But no, that’s I like remember learning about that in school is that like a good analogy is like an entrepreneur is like, as opposed to a chef going in and following a strict recipe is like a chef who kind of improvises a little bit and like, takes sees what ingredients are there and make something out of it. So, on that note, do you have a favorite custom dish?
Nicole Zeno 40:22
I just made for the first time chicken Popeye and I was told it was the best one that they’ve ever had. But every year for my mom’s birthday, her birthday is in between Thanksgiving Christmas, and she always hosts both of them and does everything we do a mom’s dinner for her. And I try to cook something really out there because my dad’s a meat and potatoes guy and he won’t try it unless it’s on mom’s dinner. So one year I did did Beef Wellington this year, I’m going to try Coco Vaughn. We’ll see how it comes out. But so far, it’s so good.
Max Branstetter 40:53
I think chicken pot pie might be one of the most underrated foods out there because I like it is it’s very well liked but you just don’t hear about it as much as some other dishes and like I I don’t think I’ve ever had a bad chicken pot pie. But like when you have a really good one. It’s it’s like that feeling you’re talking about with love and brand and your business. It’s like when you just have that good chicken Popeye it just yeah hits the spot. Let’s wrap up with some rapid fire q&a. You’re ready for it.
Nicole Zeno 41:20
Alright, let’s go.
Max Branstetter 41:21
Alright, let’s get wild. What are your favorite ingredients in chicken? Now? That would be a whole separate episode. What was the biggest adjustment to moving to Scottsdale
Nicole Zeno 41:34
I was in New York City and everything closing before 9pm Not being able to find a restaurant after 9pm
Max Branstetter 41:40
That happens in Scottsdale. That’s surprising considering it’s like a like a bachelor bachelorette party destination out to
Nicole Zeno 41:47
in on the weekends. You have till a little later. But on the weekdays, good restaurants generally. Yeah. Not being able to find a restaurant you want. Yeah. I think that that’s it if you want good Mexican food, if you want good breweries come Scottsville if you want really good Japanese food, go to New York.
Max Branstetter 42:05
Shout out my mother-in-law and father-in-law, Sheryl and Gary, who always referred to down there in Florida, bocce midnight, that the restaurants clear out in the greater Boca area after I don’t know if basically 6pm Now, it’s like 9pm. Same sort of thing. Now, what is the best life lesson that you ever learned from your parents?
Nicole Zeno 42:28
There’s so many good ones. I’m trying to think I have one. That’s a little funny that I don’t know if I really want to do that one. But
Max Branstetter 42:37
well, yeah, I mean, you kind of dangling it out there. I’m very curious now. But my
Nicole Zeno 42:41
dad was the king of like the, you know, inspirational motivational posters type of situation. And so he always said, you can’t soar like an eagle when you’re hanging with the turkeys. So
Max Branstetter 42:55
it all goes back to animals. We knew it from the get
Nicole Zeno 42:57
go. No, I think my my family, my parents just were really good at teaching us to be confident in who we are, and to really find happiness, and to follow whatever opportunity comes our way and to do it 100%. And that was just something that was really in our household from day one. And my parents did it themselves, right. And my dad and my mom were able to retire fairly early and live a really great life. And they’ve always been happy in what they do. And that’s just something we we’ve all
Max Branstetter 43:29
learned. That was really beautiful. And I’m sorry, I’m like, There’s no good segue from that because I have like really like stupid questions. But no, that’s really appreciate you sharing that and sounds like awesome people. You mentioned earlier that you love music. But you are not the most skilled at playing an instrument. But what would be your dream instrument to play and play? Well,
Nicole Zeno 43:58
I tried to play the flute when I was in bands. I would love to be able to play guitar and be like that. I don’t know if you could say it’s like a badass, you know, rock star.
Max Branstetter 44:09
You can’t say bad. Damn. Suppose
Nicole Zeno 44:15
here’s a weird talent. When I was growing up, I actually am a classically trained high soprano Italian singer. Like I can read sheet music and stuff. So
Max Branstetter 44:26
Wow. Wow. Well, you’re welcome to sing if you want, but it’s so funny. So funny. Some guests. Without me even asking. We’ll just sing and rattle off about 30 seconds. But then most are like, no, why don’t I bring up that I could say?
Nicole Zeno 44:43
It’s just not gonna happen. Yeah. You don’t want to hear it. But
Max Branstetter 44:46
on that note, last one, which actually ties to all that.
So if you were playing at like, I don’t know, Coachella or something. Actually, no, this is more fitting if you’re playing at Vans Warped Tour. De you’re gonna say it or south. By now
and you could cover any song and you like we’re amazing at music and singing and flute you know all that so you could you could do it. What would be your one song to cover in front of like, you know diehard fans and a mosh pit and everything.
Nicole Zeno 45:14
I’ll tell you my karaoke song is Def Leppard Pour Some Sugar on Me. So there you go. Awesome. Most people who are listening to this would not expect it. You know me, but yeah.
Max Branstetter 45:30
Amazing. Shout out my cousin, Alana, whose ringtone was that for a while. fun, funny, small, small world. Well, Nicole, thank you so much. This has been an absolute blast. And we’ve gone from animals to more animals, so I don’t know how far we’ve got. No, no, your story’s amazing and just love what you do and your business and everything you’re all about. Where’s the best place for people if they want to learn more about you learn more about clever cow media anything else? You want to shout out?
Nicole Zeno 45:56
Yeah, well, Max, I’m gonna leave you with one last dad joke. Why did the Scarecrow get an award?
Max Branstetter 46:04
Oh, I just made a scarecrow joke in my newsletter does have something about hey are being stuffed. No probably not go ahead. Because
Nicole Zeno 46:11
he was outstanding in his field. Anyway, with that note,
Max Branstetter 46:18
Bravo that’s really good. If
Nicole Zeno 46:20
you want to connect like always we’re on social media @CleverCowMedia. I’m personally on social media @NBZeno CleverCowMedia.com You can join our newsletter. We are launching lots of amazing things in January including products free master classes, with not just us but other experts that are part of our community. So come join us and then also, we are launching a YouTube show called What the Frac hear all about fractional executives and how do you think through like a fractional executive? So join us on YouTube all the places and if you have any questions, just feel free to reach out to me.
Max Branstetter 47:07
Spectacular. Well, I was going to ask you to and wrap up final thoughts with a dad joke but you’ve already done you’ve more than outdone yourself I think that’s one of the best I’ve ever heard was scarecrow. So I’ll just ask you to end with this just like one line kind of words live by our words of advice, whatever you want. Send us home here you’ll scarecrow you
Nicole Zeno 47:29
I’m going to leave you with do hard things. Honestly, when I started doing hard things like you know I run ultra marathons and I travel solo like that’s when those skills started to translate back into you know, the business and alleviating stress. So the beautiful stuff comes when you do hard things. So always go do that.
Max Branstetter 47:53
Hardy har har. Thank you so much, Nicole for coming on the Wild Business Growth Podcast, sharing your tips, your stories, your music videos, your Warped Tour nostalgia, and of course, the dad jokes. And thank you, Wild Listeners, for tuning in to another episode. If you want to hear more Wild stories like this one and animal dad jokes. Make sure to follow the Wild Business Growth Podcast on your favorite podcast app and tell a friend about the podcast and maybe you know whip out your best dad joke in their direction. I’m sure they will not roll their eyes. You can also find us on Goodpods, where there are good podcasts and good podcast people and recommendations. And for any help of the podcast production, you can learn more at MaxPodcasting.com and sign up for the Podcasting to the Max newsletter. All you got to do is go to MaxPodcasting.com/Newsletter and then sign up there. Until next time, moo that turned into a moo. Let your business Run Wild…Bring on the Bongos!!
