Full Transcript – Nicole Smith – Wild Business Growth Podcast #280

This is the full transcript for Episode #280 of the Wild Business Growth Podcast featuring Nicole Smith – Travel Photo Maestro, Founder of Flytographer. You can listen to the interview and learn more here. Please note: this transcript is not 100% accurate.

Nicole Smith 0:00
I really believe that everything is figuroutable and you just got to take action start doing start going and make some progress and learn.

Max Branstetter 0:22
Fly Hello, Welcome back to the Wild Business Growth Podcast. This is your place to hear from a new entrepreneur every single Wednesday morning who’s turning Wild ideas into Wild growth. I’m your host, Max Branstetter, Founder and Podcast Producer at MaxPodcasting, and you can email me at to save time with your high-quality podcast. This is episode 280. I don’t know why I said it like that. And today’s guest is Nicole Smith, Founder and CEO of Flytographer. Have you ever wanted to have the best possible professional photographs when you’re visiting some of the coolest places in the world, and as a bonus, you get pretty much a tour guide with that as well. That is the insight behind Flytographer. You can get professional photographs, and you can get your whole family in the picture. You get it from people you trust. They’re basically tour guides as well. In this episode, we talked the really really incredible emphasis in that word flytographer story, the sacrifices Nicole made to make the business work, how they’ve expanded to 400 cities on six continents. Emphasis on emphasis on six emphasis six on six. And a special all travel edition of Rapid-Fire Q&A. It is Nicole and this is her flytographer life. Enjoyyyy the shoooooow!

Aaaaaalrightyyyyyy we’re here with Nicole Smith, Founder and CEO of Flytographer. A company that I already found love with just because the name and like play on words and play on travel and photography. You know, like every like every company that I talked to know, but really, really cool company, Nicole, so excited to dive into Flytographer and beyond. Thanks for joining. How’re you doing today?

Nicole Smith 2:18
All right, I’m doing great. I’m so happy to be here. Of course.

Max Branstetter 2:22
Oh my god. I just said of course out of habit. You didn’t You didn’t say thanks for having me. So you’re welcome. Starting off hot here, but no, so happy to have you here as well. And before we get to kind of the origin of flytographer, there’s one little tidbit I heard that I had to ask about right away. And that is the fact that at some point in the business to keep the business going, you needed to sell your car. Can you share that story?

Nicole Smith 2:49
Yeah, I can. And it’s true. That the car story. So when I started Flytographer, I was working full time at Microsoft, the idea for it was banging around in my head for nine months. And I’m like, I gotta I gotta try it. And so it was sort of a side of the desk thing or side printer, which is what a lot of people call it. And so for me, what that meant is I do my nine to five, also a mom of two kids, so then it come home and kids stuff. And then Flytographer was kind of a nights and weekends thing. And because it was just me slowly poking at it that first year, it wasn’t making a lot of money, it wasn’t growing really quickly. And as a result, I was not taking any money from photographers doing the opposite. I was putting money into the business like if you know, I had to hire someone to help me with something. And so for the first year, I saw my bank account go down and down and down and down. But then about a year into the business. I was so stretched as you can imagine working full time being a mom of two young kids and trying to do the startup I had to come to that decision point of do I quit flytographer and just focus on Microsoft, which is stable and secure and great. And I loved it there. Or do I quit Microsoft and focus fully on Flytographer and jump off that entrepreneurial cliff. Because it’s gotta be one or the other I was at it was like this elastic band that got stretched and stretched and stretched and like I wasn’t doing anything to the best I could. And so I came to this sort of juncture this decision point of okay, what which one is it going to be and to make that decision? I said, What would 85 year old me? Do like like, if I were to say I’m 85? I’m looking back? Would I regret more that I hadn’t done this thing and always wondered what it could be? Or would I have regretted that I you know, quit my stable career at a corporate job and gave it a shot and failed. And I knew that a five year old me would be like, Oh my gosh, like you can’t not know how this will go. You have to do it. You have to do it. And so I made that decision, and I left my corporate job And so for the next six months, I had zero income. And I have a mortgage, I have kids, I have like, a personal burn rate, you know, as people do in their 40s. And I couldn’t go sleep on a friend’s couch eating KD, I had to continue to pay, you know, cover my bills. So I used my savings when my savings were all gone. The only other asset I had was my car. And so I actually sold my car, to keep putting money into the business to keep going. And I remember my dad thought it was crazy, because he’s like, you held a great job at Microsoft, and you quit it. And now you’ve drained your savings. And you don’t even own a car. And I’m like, Dad, I believe in this so much. I’ll sell my house next. He was just like, what is happening to you? Anyways, the good news is I didn’t need to sell my house and the businesses. You know, we raised money. And now you know, we’ve been growing ever since. But that was a for me. It wasn’t even like, Oh, should I sell my car? And I was like, of course, I’ll sell my car because I have to keep on this train. I’m on this mission. I believe in this vision. Of course, I’ll sell my car

Max Branstetter 6:10
That is a wildly cool story. It’s crazy. There’s there’s a couple of aspects of that story that, like totally echo what a couple of previous guests on the show have had like guests like in the 270s like recent guests at the time of this recording. And it’s it’s pretty crazy what you just said how closely matches up. Liz Georgie of suna said that, you know, when I asked her how to becoming a mother change how she approached business. And like her professional career, she was like, I think of what are the things I’m going to be proud of when I’m in my 80s. And that’s like exactly what you said, like a big point of your decision. And then I can talk of Jotform said that when he started out and started building this huge company, he didn’t have a car, he took a bus everywhere. And it like made him feel good. Even though he’s like employees, you know, as employees are running around in cars, I mean, it feel good that he was taking the bus because he knew that he was could use that savings to invest back in the business. So I think there’s some there’s some common things here that are flying around with successful entrepreneurs. So I gotta give that to you. But what was the reason? Besides your dad telling you, you’re crazy? What What was the reaction of like, friends and family and you know, others when they found out like, wow, like you really, you know, it’s gotten to the point where your business that it’s like I’m selling off assets to keep it going. Yeah,

Nicole Smith 7:28
it’s an interesting mix. I think those that were really close to me, like my best friend, and my close friends were very supportive and really got it. And then it was more that people that you know, are acquaintances, or like, parents in the school yard, when you’re picking up your kids, that, you know, it’s maybe harder for them to see because they’re they don’t have the visibility that you have. And for a lot of people, I think those kinds of risks don’t feel comfortable. And it’s hard to imagine. So it would depend on who I was talking to. But I just have this like, thought of and I have this one friend who I used to joke with that my plan B was like sleeping in the trampoline in her backyard, because like, you know, you’re kind of making fun of it. You’re like, okay, so if I lose the house, well, these things happen. And like, she’s like, Yeah, but at the end of the day, I’m very privileged and lucky because my parents both live in town. And if the worst came to the worst, I could move back in with my mom and I thought, I’ve been working, you know, in corporate marketing for decades, I will get another job again, like I can rebuild, I can get back there. So I kind of took when I was trying to decide it was like okay, what would 80 year old me like regret more? That was sort of one filter than the other filter was, okay, let’s take this movie to the end of the road. So let’s say it spectacularly fails. Let’s say I lose all my money, and I’m Penny list jobless. All of those things. What then I’m like, okay, so I’ll move back in with my mom for a while, eat some Humble Pie, get a job again, and rebuild with incredible lessons and incredible learning. So I thought if that’s the worst case, I can handle the worst case.

Max Branstetter 9:03
How does one sleep on a trampoline? Did you work on logistics of that?

Nicole Smith 9:08
Well, I imagine I actually have slept on a trampoline before. You know you have kids and it’s kind of a fun thing to do in the summer with like new bags. But yeah, I didn’t really think that one through I’d have to confess. It

Max Branstetter 9:19
sounds weirdly comfortable until somebody starts jumping in then it’s okay, maybe this isn’t sustainable. It would be fun though. Especially

Nicole Smith 9:25
if it’s like a raccoon in the middle of the night.

Max Branstetter 9:32
Let’s get away from raccoons and let’s get get to Flytographer the opposite of raccoons. That’s what your tagline is about. But, you know, we alluded to Flytographer already but I want to back up a bit because the start of your story and how you got into this space is really fascinating in itself. So what you mentioned that it started as a side hustle or as a side printer. What was the the insight or aha moment that was like hmm, there could be some sort of photographer service in different places out there.

Nicole Smith 10:02
The idea came on a trip to Paris, I was there in a project for Microsoft and my best friend happens to live in Copenhagen. So I said, like, Erica, why don’t you meet me on Friday, my work will be done. And then we can spend the weekend together in Paris, and seen her for a couple of years. And we were like, great. So we have these, you know, couple of days in Paris. We’ve been to Paris before. So we weren’t like on this tourist agenda. We just wanted to hang out and catch up and connect and make memories. And so we’re walking on the streets of Paris on the cobblestones. And I have this feeling. And I’m sure you’ve had this on on trips, everyone does. I want to capture this moment, because this moment is really awesome. Like, we’re here in Paris, we have this amazing architecture all around us. I’m walking with my best friend. And I just feel so happy right now I want to take a picture to remember the spy on a gloomy October rainy day in the fall, we did that and we’d like take our you know, like everyone, you take your phone and you try to take a selfie, and the selfies would end up being like 90% our heads and like, you know, 10% the whack job, or we would give our phone to like a stranger. And then you know, you’d have four chins, or they just cut off, you know, someone’s neck, feet, whatever. So, like, I’d look at them. I’m like, this doesn’t represent how I feel, it’s not going to bring you back there. Luckily enough on that trip, she had a local friend from Paris that met us for brunch, and we were walking around after brunch, and I just sent to this friend and like, Can you do me a huge favor and just take a few shots of me and Erica on my phone, but like from a distance. And so what I had described to her is like, I want more of what we in photography called like a wide angle shot where you’re small. And then you see the backdrop I just said like roll walk down the cobblestones back to the camera. But I just want like a beautiful shot with all those Parisian buildings, us walking down the cobblestones. And so she got really into it. She took photos of us for like maybe 10-15 minutes, like up on the bridge, she’d sit down in the bank, but from a distance with like the spectacular back jaw. And then when I looked at my phone after Max, I was like, I have goosebumps because she had captured the spirit of our trip. In a way those selfies and those stranger shots just couldn’t even compare with. And this woman wasn’t a photographer, she’s just someone with an iPhone. But it was like that intentional documenting of the memory from a bit of a distance where both people could be in the photo, you know, she’s not going to run off with your camera. So it was just like this great, great solution. I’m like, Well, how, without a doubt, this is the best souvenir I’ll bring home from this trip because it absolutely captured that feeling that feeling we had in the moment and the spirit of our trip. And I thought to myself, like, this is the souvenir I would like to bring back on future trips. But how? Like, how would I do that? Right? That’s when I started, the wheels started turning like, okay, like, how would this work. And so that’s sort of took me on on the journey of flytographer If

Max Branstetter 13:06
you’re so spot on, like, whenever my wife and I travel, like we make the most of every single picture, like we look at it, we drive our family friends crazy with how much we show him the pictures, but like a really good picture, into your point, a really good picture that like truly captures the vibes. Like there’s no better souvenir than that. Because nothing, nothing is better at like taking you virtually back to that place or mentally to that place. So that’s a really, really great insight to build a business around being

Nicole Smith 13:38
an if we can be more intentional, because I think sometimes people pick like pick up their phone and they’re like, oh, I want like that’s a beautiful building. Let’s capture that or we’re here, let’s capture that. But for certain trips in certain moments to be really intentional about what you’re capturing and capturing that third character, which is this city right of the story. And to capture that emotion I think is the biggest part, like capturing joy, capturing history, capturing love, whatever, whatever it is that’s happening in that moment. It’s more than a photo like you’re capturing emotion. What

Max Branstetter 14:10
are those early days as a side hustle look like? Like, What did the business look like as you’re putting the pieces together?

Nicole Smith 14:18
I think one of the interesting things that like when I look back is like I had no idea how hard the journey was going to be. I had no idea how little I knew. And I I’m kind of grateful that I didn’t because I don’t think that would have kept going, you know, you you have this bliss of ignorance when you first start a business, at least I did. And it’s a lot of just okay, how do I figure that out? Okay, how do I figure that out? So a lot of it is just result resilience and figuring things out and I had a background in marketing, but I had zero background in photography. I’m not a photographer. by trade. I know a lot now but in the early days, and I remember like one story where I had gone to Europe to meet a bunch of photographers, so was kind of formulating the idea before it officially launched. And I was in Berlin and I met a few photographers there. And we were having coffee. And I was explaining the concept, because you can imagine, like, this concept didn’t exist. So I had to educate and sell people on why this was a good thing, both the customers and the photographers in the early days. And so when I’m sitting at this cafe in Berlin, and these two male photographers are chatting with me, and there’s, they’re interested, and I can feel like, okay, I think this could get them listed on the platform. And I remember at one point, they said to me, okay, this sounds really good. Nicole, like, we’re interested, a couple of questions for you. One being, what format Do you want the photos sent in? Or what size do you want the photos sent in? And I hadn’t even thought of that yet. And I had no idea what size was appropriate or what to say. And I remember the that particular moment, I’m like, I am such a fraud. Who am I to think that I can create this photography, global business, when I don’t even know what size the photo should come in? And so I sort of froze, I sat there, you know, try to think like, what, how do I respond to this? And then I’m like, what size do you typically send your photos out in? And they said, Oh, you know, 3300 by 2500, 100 dpi, I’m like, oh, that’s exactly what we do. And so I just kind of like had to roll with it and take a beat. And I think a lot of building a startup is finding those moments and just figuring it out as you go, and you don’t have to have all the answers, and you just learn and move. And so in the early days, there was a lot of moments like that coffee shop in Berlin with those photographers and, and going from there, you know, even just trying to like recruit those first I think there were 18, then when we first launched, trying to convince them that this was a legit business, I was, you know, like, a legit person, and that this would be a good opportunity for photographers was super hard. Now we have had, like, you know, so many photographers apply that we only actually accept 3%, because we’re so rigorous with who we bring on. But in the early days, it was absolutely like, selling, you know, I had to sell every single person to deceive and get them to buy into the idea. So

Max Branstetter 17:09
other than promising that you’re not going to take their phone or take their camera and run with it. What did that pitch look like for those early photographers that became your, I guess, partners or clients, I don’t know how you describe it.

Nicole Smith 17:20
We like we there are our community. And so we partner with them, for sure. And we have about 600 Now that we partner with around the world. But I think in the early days, it was about like most of them were wedding photographers. So we targeted wedding photo, I targeted wedding photographers in the early days, because wedding photographers are great natural storytellers. And wedding photographers are typically busy on the weekends. And so my pitch to them was, hey, this is a great side hustle, I can serve you up a booking on a Tuesday morning or Thursday evening, it’s only one hour, and you get to meet really cool travelers from around the world that you normally wouldn’t meet. And I take care of all the marketing all like the only thing you need to do is show up and shoot. And what else is great is that you can diversify your portfolio so you can capture different kinds of in. So from a creative aspect that was interesting from a marketing aspect that was interesting. And then I made it really simple in terms of like, this is what you get paid for this amount. And this is how I think about this a lot with my business across all aspects is how do we make it easy to do business with us? And so making it easy, giving the opportunity to serve them, you know, opt in slots when they weren’t doing their weddings was was part of the early pitch. And then

Max Branstetter 18:35
you were you made sure to tell him this is how many or how much DPI we use. Like we’ve always done this since day one. I think keeping it simple, stupid as they say key and making things easy is phenomenal foundation shadow, alliteration, in a sense, like to build your business on what other ways like what other arms and legs and tentacles? I’ve heard that I don’t I don’t just let that one go. of the business have you made easy.

Nicole Smith 19:03
My leadership team talks about this a lot. There’s a really good Harvard Business Review article about the importance of customer experience and and the word easy. I think for years, I always had the mindset of focusing on delighting our customers going above and beyond exceeding expectations. I read this article and it really made me kind of rethink how I approach the business and how we look at it today is from like a from a customer perspective to the most important thing that we can do is make it easy for our customers to do business with us. And so that’s like wherever it is in their journey, whether that’s trying to find the information they need on the website, having clear transparent pricing, having a booking process, a booking process that’s frictionless and really clear, knowing like what they get at what stage. If we make it easy for our customers to do business with us. They’re going to want to come back again and again so you can make it like over and above delightful But if it’s not easy, that’s the first step. So we always are looking, whether it’s on the product side, or, you know, the messaging that they got through emails, etc, that everything, we always are trying to make it a little bit easier every time we go. And one of my favorite things is when I get the feedback, and we get it every day comes through like a Slack channel API. Whenever I see that word easy in our customer feedback, I just do a little bit of a happy Clap, because it’s like, oh, it was so easy that you know, and, you know, we told our friends and so then you know, it’s working.

Max Branstetter 20:31
The who was it Staples that has the Easy button? Yeah, I know that they like turned into an actual product. And it’s like a whole joke and everything. But you could literally use that to looking at your reviews on Slack. Now, that’s an awesome thing to build around. You so you talked about the the pitch to the photographers, you know, in your community, what about actual customers, like people who do end up using Flytographer? what’s your what’s your kind of your marketing message or pitch to them, you didn’t know you’re gonna have to do so many pitches today. Your pitch to them, especially in the early days of like, Why use a service like yourself, as opposed to like a phone or a different photographer, something else.

Nicole Smith 21:14
So I think that it depends on who I’m talking to you. But one example I’ll give you is if I’m talking to like moms, it’s about 40% of our business, it’s, you’re often the one chronicling the memories for everybody else, and often the one missing in the memories. So Flytographer is a great way for you to get into the photo to one of my favorite ways to describe Flytographer is like, imagine you’re going on a family trip to Rome, and you’re gonna meet up with Roberta, one of our trusted photographers there, she’s gonna walk the streets with you take gorgeous candid photos with those iconic backdrops so that everybody’s in the photo together, and you’re having fun, you’re walking the streets, but she’s also going to share tips about the city. So Roberta is a native in Rome, and knows all the best things. And so she might share her favorite coffee shop. Or if you’re like, hey, is there a bookstore, she’ll share where the bookstore is that she loves, or that there’s a park that your kids would like down the street. So I think one of the best parts is not just that you’re going to get these incredible photos that will, you know, have that sense of nostalgia for years and years and years to come. But you’re really connecting with the local and that one hour, you’re rubbing elbows with someone who’s friendly and fun and loves the city, and you’re learning tips and advice that you can apply to your trip. So your trip becomes more interesting as well. So I’d say it’s kind of both.

Max Branstetter 22:37
Yeah, that I just got like the best kind of chills when you said that because like, by far the coolest travel experiences are when you do like do something with a local or do something with like a local guy, especially when it’s a tour that involves you know, like a walking tour or food or drink, you know, pretty much all of our favorites are food and drink. No, it’s an incredible insight that, hey, you know, not only do you get this kind of like the tour guide, or walking tour vibe, and we can you know, you can talk to a local, but also, you’re gonna get incredible pictures out of this too. So it’s like the you got the union best of both worlds there. So I’m, I’m sold on the pitch. Also shout out Roberta in Rome. I’m a sucker for alliteration. So just like by having an expert guide photographer like that, whose name starts with our in room is brilliant. So nicely done. But no, that’s that’s a really cool niche there. But then I know, you know, in addition to the travel photography, at a certain point, you expand it into like local kind of general local photoshoots, as well, what what caused that addition?

Nicole Smith 23:41
So I mean, pretty much since the beginning, when customers have been coming to us for the vacation side, they also, you know, later on, we’ll be like, Hey, do you also like shoot locally? Like, can you come photograph my kids birthday party or my team event or what have you. And so we are focused on vacation, but we got all these requests over the years for events and things like that. And then during COVID Obviously, when people weren’t traveling, we had to figure out how can we still bring work to our community and you know, have something of value to our customers. And so we launched the modern headshot, hometown shoots and ways for people to still book flytographer through our platform for these different use cases. And so, to this day, yeah, we have people booking headshots booking event. photoshoots hometown shoots, vacation is definitely our biggest area of vertical but we are expanding and it’s really great to be able to bring different more work to our community. Yeah,

Max Branstetter 24:41
that’s got to be so fulfilling. There’s always a need for that in so many different spaces. We you mentioned vacation is your biggest vertical Wait, if you don’t mind, revealing like what how big of the pie is that? Currently?

Nicole Smith 24:52
I would say it’s about 75% of the pie. Yeah, well,

Max Branstetter 24:56
there’s, there’s there’s always an endless need for forever. occasion photos.

Nicole Smith 25:00
You know, some people might have a photographer locally that they worked with. But when you’re going abroad, like trying to find a trusted photographer that’s vetted and reliable is a lot of legwork. So that’s where I think we can get make it easy.

Max Branstetter 25:15
Oh, it goes back to the Easy Button. So looking at your business, now you’re available to do business, and you have photographers, and I think close to 400 cities around the world. And six continents, I’m going to guess Antarctica is the one continent you’re not

Nicole Smith 25:32
in my right now to Antarctica yet,

Max Branstetter 25:35
that’s gonna be so cold to take pictures there. It’s tough on the fingers. But just incredible expansion all around. And I’m gonna set a record for using the word incredible today. So thank you for bearing with me. But incredibly, how have you been able to navigate? Like, how different countries have different legislation around running businesses like that? Have you? Have you encountered a lot of that and new territories?

Nicole Smith 25:57
Yeah, I mean, obviously, like, it’s a challenge when you’re operating globally, for sure. And so I have a great team that helps kind of work through all the actually one of the things that had recently is hiring a CEO, Chief Operating Officer. And so that’s, that’s been a really exciting kind of next step for us in terms of growth and where we’re going as a business. For many years, I was running it and kind of overseeing a lot of different things. And now I have this other seasoned leader who is able to kind of come in and see across the business, like I was seeing across the business. And so it’s really great to have that kind of support. Again, we went down to 4 people during COVID. So we had a team of 20, had to let everyone go except for four people. And we’ve now built the team back up to around 23 people. But we’re doing double the sales we did before COVID. So it’s been a really exciting kind of trajectory. And now as we get kind of ready to go on this next stage of expansion, having a solid CFO in place is really exciting for the business. Yeah,

Max Branstetter 27:00
that is super exciting. It’s super, super exciting. That’s a new word that we’re coming up with all kinds of grammar records there. I mean, so many entrepreneurs talk about, like the roller coaster, and so many saw that drink COVID. But that’s yeah, that’s got to just like pump you up that, Hey, we’re back to the team that we were even a little bit more, and we’re doing this much better. Like that’s what a story they’re back to those photographers, because they’re so foundational to your business. From I’m sure it varies a lot. But like for most of them, how much of a part of their business? Is flytographer? Like, is this often side hustles for them? Or is this like, Are there any, like fully devoted a photographer?

Nicole Smith 27:43
Yeah, it’s mostly what I would say side hustles. So a lot of our photographers are wedding photographers, I would say that’s probably the biggest chunk. And then there’s others that do like events and family portraits and things like that. But for most of our community, it’s definitely a side hustle. And it’s something to work around their existing kind of main source of income.

Max Branstetter 28:07
How’s it feel to have something that you started as a side hustle, now be the side hustle for hundreds and hundreds of like so many people over the years?

Nicole Smith 28:15
Yeah, I mean, it’s pretty awesome. I love hearing the stories of like, you know, people that can now like, pay their rent, and like just the stability that flytographer has given them over the years to be able to continue doing things that they love, and also have this steady income and a reliable way. It’s fantastic. But I’d say one of the things that really makes me happy is the relationships. And so we for many years would have a global meetup and we would meet up with photographers from around the world. Last year, we had it in Paris, because it was our 10th anniversary. And so photographers are coming in from like Australia, Hawaii, you know, all over Europe. And one of the things that I’ve observed is like with photographers, sometimes they can be competitive with the wedding photographers in their city, so maybe they don’t connect as much and they’re busy shooting or editing. And so to be able to be in a room with all these peers, where you have the same highs, the same lows, the same joys and to be able to talk about all of that it’s just magical. And so over the years, we’ve we’ve got photographers that have been with us over 10 years, and I’ve seen them like you know, buy their first home get married have their first baby and we’ve been connected with these photographers for so many years and we’ve had romances come up within the community we’ve had you know, people fly to meet fret, like they make friends with each other and then they fly to see each other. And that to me is is one of the best parts that and then the customers that have come like again and again year after year. We have this one customer Brad who has done I think like 20 shoots with his partner. Shout out bread. Yeah, Shadow Brad. And so he has a list in his phone of like all his flytographer friends that he now has around the world like you know Joanna in Amsterdam and Olga in Paris. And, you know, so and so and so and so, I think that’s why we travel, right? We want to see how others live, how others, you know, experience their city. And so to be able to connect these photographers with each other, and to be able to connect customers, with the photographers. And I just feel like you really get to see the all the good in the world, like the people are more alike than different. And there’s so many great people out there. And I know that’s probably one of my favorite parts.

Max Branstetter 30:29
Just the thought of having contacts that you could like hit up anytime you go to countries all around the world like that, like Brett Brad’s built up an incredible community. They’re in it within himself. But I think about moments of like, some of our favorite moments from travel. And like, at the time of this recording, it was last summer, my wife and I did our honeymoon in Italy. Thank you appreciate it. Yeah, we could talk about that for hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours. But one of our favorite memories in like, just like encounters of people we met on that trip was we were taking the train from Rome to Naples and then Amalfi Coast, there was an incident on the train and just like a minor medical emergency where like, they basically everything was okay, but they delayed the train for like an hour. So we’re just sitting there in Rome in the hot summer, on a train kind of feeling trapped. But there was this like the sweetest ever, not Swedish, the sweetest ever British family was sitting across from us in like, you know, those train chairs that are facing each other. And I recognize their accent. And of course, I’d strike up a conversation with everybody. I’m like, Oh, are you guys from the UK. And then we ended up talking this entire trip, you know, like the hour delay, and then the almost two hour train ride. And they were the nicest people ever. And like if wherever, you know, like next time we’re back in the UK, or like happen to see him anywhere, which we did happen to run into him later on the trip. Like, would love to see them, like we’d love to say, hey, like they were the nicest people ever. And so just like those freaking counters, if you will, of locals, or for people from other places can really make make all the memories, which is what your company is all about.

Nicole Smith 32:03
To me, that’s the magic of travel. Right. And I mean, that’s why when we hire photographers, we look for skills, like they have to be a professional and like, you know, number of years experience they have to be reliable and responsible. But the third thing is they have to be someone that you would want to spend one hour of your precious vacation time with, they have to be someone who is excited to host you around the city who loves connecting with people around the world. And that is the magic, like you said, like when you get to know people and I feel blessed because wherever I travel, I get to have dinner or lunch with locals. And so I’m going to New York next week with my son for spring break. And I’ll be meeting with photographers there and catching up and you just get to see like the city from their eyes. And it’s just the best well

Max Branstetter 32:48
come say hey, I’m right outside of New York. So what we’ll get a photo shoots and just maybe you want to do an awesome photo shoot in Cleveland, Ohio, because that is where CEX Content Entrepreneur Expo is It is May 5-7, 2024 It is the event. Day like start crying there. The event for content entrepreneurs, awesome, awesome event created by Cleveland’s finest Joe Pulizzi. Also, special guests on Episode 15 and Episode 100, of the Wild Business Growth Podcast, you can use promo code MAX100 for $100 off any in-person ticket, and you can sign up at cx dot events. Now in honor of another one to Cleveland’s finest, Chip Tha Ripper or King Chip. Let’s go all around the world. And back to Cleveland, actually, this is flipped, let’s go from Cleveland to all around the world. Let’s switch gears a little bit, let’s get to more you on the personal side and like as a business owner in and out of the business. And so I think as you know, and as you’ve stated, and as any entrepreneur knows, like, it is not an easy endeavor to start a business. It’s not it’s certainly not an easy endeavor to start a side hustle and then build that to a bigger company. And then I think what’s really cool and unique about yours is it is such a global company, like you work with people all around the world. And obviously you can do a lot of that managing and business owning online, but you actually have people like on the ground in places all around the world. So like, I guess just mentally or with your approach like how how do you go to work each day with like that global and global growth mindset in mind. Where

Nicole Smith 34:43
we’re at now, as a business is like, I think we’ve expanded to most of the key cities that we want to be in and it’s now how do we go deeper and each of the cities and then how do we think about expansion beyond the vacation vertical and what is kind of what is next there? So, service where we’re at strategically, that’s, that’s on my mind a lot. How

Max Branstetter 35:06
do you find a way to unplug when you have so many considering, you know, like there’s people that are part of your team that are like in every different timezone around the world, except Antarctica timezone, whatever that no, it’s just almost rain articles on every time zone when you think about it, but how do you find moments to unplug or, you know, stay calm focus on your personal life, when technically like, there’s work to be done at any given moment for your business? Yeah,

Nicole Smith 35:30
I think in the early days, it was it was chaos, like, because you’re just it and you’re the frontline. You know, as you scale your business, and you put systems in place and process in place, and tech in place, a lot of that can get smoother. And so we’re at the stage now where I have, you know, Customer Experience team, I have a manager of that team, etc. We have people that manage the photographer’s and recruitment. So a lot of those operational pieces are systematized now and we have tech may have a great tech team before where you know, a photographer might not show up, and then I’d get a text or I’d be dealing with that at like 3am. Now we have automations flowing and messages and transactional emails and all that kind of thing. So and we have a fully built out booking platform. So a lot of those things have we’ve learned and and we constantly are iterating. Like, how do we make again, back to being easy? How do we make this easier for customers? How do we make it easier for photographers, and so we’ve just been fine tuning that and working at it over the years. So for me at this at this stage, it’s less of the knee jerk every day, you know, there’ll be, you know, 100 shoots happening today, all over the world, and they’re just flowing. And so that that part’s great. I think as you scale a business, you start thinking about different challenges. And so for me, that’s like, where’s that next stage of growth coming from? What are the right marketing levers to pull. So we are in the process of hiring ahead of growth marketing. So we’re interviewing folks. And so that’s where my mind is at right now. It’s like, okay, who’s going to be the right person that’s going to be able to take us now that we’re in the eight figure mark up to the next level, like who’s going to be that person for us. And so I’m thinking about about that a lot. But one of the best things that happened to me in the last four years was I got a leadership coach, the CEO coach, and she specializes in conscious leadership, I have learned so much from her Max, I cannot tell you, the leader I was before COVID, to the leader I am now and the mindset shift from, you know, kind of learning about these conscious leadership tools. It’s really comes down to self awareness. As a leader, it’s so important to have self awareness and to be able to approach things from a place of curiosity versus from a place of fear. I think in my early years, I was approaching a lot of things from a place of fear, like, oh my god, what about this? Oh, my gosh, what about that, and then, over the last few years, really been able to kind of pivot. I credit my coach Goli. She’s been amazing. She’s coached a lot of other founders that I know. And my first session with her was a gift from another founder, Bernadette, this was in the depths of like, COVID Hell, and I, you know, we had no budget and things were really rough. And Bernadette gifted me a session with Goli. And I was like, This is so such a game changer for me. I’m gonna find the money to keep seeing goalie and, you know, the rest is history, Goli has been transformative for my business. So

Max Branstetter 38:27
wow, well shoutout Goli. At first, I was laughing myself a little bit, because you mentioned goalie and then coach, and then I thought you were going to keep using sports references. I realized her name was goalie. That’s, I know how important it is to have a coach into not try to do everything yourself. I’m always curious about logistics for that, like, obviously, you don’t share prices or anything like that. But like, how for you, what have you found is a good cadence for like, how often to speak to like a coach or mentor somebody like that?

Nicole Smith 38:59
Yeah, I think it’s very personal. In the beginning, it was probably less frequent. Now. We speak probably three times a month, I would say, and it’ll depend on like, what’s going on, whether it’s like, I need to like talk through an issue. Maybe it’s a people issue, or maybe it’s a strategy issue. And I usually do well, I pretty much always do a walk. So I’ll walk I live pretty close to the beach. So I’ll walk along the beach, talk to her. And she really helps me get to be more neutral about things and receiving things in a more neutral place. And then being able to again, be above the line and go into curiosity and with how I react to things. And I think it’s made me a healthier leader. But I’ve also had some of my leadership team see goalie as well. And so we’re all kind of using the same vernacular language tool sets so that we’re all aligned and and really always trying to like be as healthy as we can be with how we communicate. And it’s been it’s been amazing. I couldn’t recommend it more. So

Max Branstetter 39:59
even more and more about that the walk and talk about like how beneficial it can be to, like, walk in, you know, you’re talking on the phone or if it’s like something you’re doing in person with somebody, it’s, it’s so nice and that thing of back to, I mean, totally different mindset. But like growing up, you know, like, my parents are entrepreneurs and like, they built the business out of the house and like, I just remember like growing up that they made a point to go for a walk around the neighborhood, like, every single night after the work day. Which I, which I always understood, but also like now that it’s like, you know, like growing up and like working and like building a business. It’s like, you need to get outside sometimes just having natural conversations like that with you know, totally unplugged. It can be really, really incredible. Just to throw that word in there again. thing for you.

Nicole Smith 40:45
Yeah, I love I love walking with with friends or just listening to podcasts. My favorite way to bring myself down is I go to Pilates. I play pickleball and my number one thing is I invested in a hot tub last year and all I love going in my hot tub so that just really it’s a place where I can just sit listen to the birds think calm down and yeah, I do it like in the morning night whenever I can.

Max Branstetter 41:13
Pilates pickleball and hot tub that’s in the new gym tan laundry. GTL PPHT rolls off the tongue. Let’s run our way to a incredible finish here wrapping up with some Rapid-Fire Q&A. A full-on only travel edition. You ready for it? All right, hit me. All right, Let’s Get Wild. What is the most drop dead gorgeous place that you’ve ever stepped foot in or traveled to?

Nicole Smith 41:44
That’s a great question. I would probably say the beaches in Thailand,

Max Branstetter 41:50
any specific beach? Yeah, I

Nicole Smith 41:52
went to this beach. Near it was Railay beach. And they had these limestone cliffs that go down into the surly and water and it was just white sand beach and it was just breathtaking. That’s

Max Branstetter 42:06
the best civilian reference and pronunciation I’ve ever heard. So thank you for what is the call it a foreign food foreign meal that you’ve had somewhere in the world, and that you’ve been craving ever since you had it?

Nicole Smith 42:20
That’s a great question. I really can’t think of anything I’m not I’m unlike you. I’m not a big foodie. When I when I travel,

Max Branstetter 42:26
like my food reputation precedes me.

Nicole Smith 42:30
I can’t really always remember like, Oh, that was that meal was good. I feel like I’ve had so many pastors in Italy that I’m like this this pastor I’ve ever had, or that’s the best, you know, went to Japan and had some incredibly incredible meals in Japan. Like

Max Branstetter 42:44
I know in Asia, especially there’s some really, really unique meal or like things that we don’t eat as often in the US or Canada. Was there something you tried over there? Well

Nicole Smith 42:52
when I lived in Korea because I lived in Korea years before I started flytographer And my go to meal there which I haven’t had here that’s been even close to how good it was there was bibimbap and dolsot bibimbap in particular bibimbap is like the hot hot. And then they have the vegetables and the rice and then they have the Gochujang sauce and like an egg on top and the eggs cooking while you’re mixing it in. A good old dolsot bibimbap even back from Korea will probably be one of my favorites. Say

Max Branstetter 43:24
that 19 times fast dolsto bibimbap. How’s that? Okay, I can’t say it once.

Nicole Smith 43:30
It’s fun. Yeah.

Max Branstetter 43:32
What place had the biggest culture shock that you’ve been to? Probably

Nicole Smith 43:36
Japan, just because it is so different than Europe and South America and other places I’ve been? Yeah, just kind of getting used to how many big lights there were everybody like you know, there’s the lights everywhere in Tokyo. Busyness, the crowds, but like everyone is so orderly and polite and lovely. And that kind of mix of like new and old. It’s like adjacent to each other. That’s also really fascinating with Japan, you can have like 1000 year old temple next to like, neon sign and it’s just, it’s just visually arresting. Right, like, it’s very cool. You’re just like, wow, one of my favorite parts of going to Japan, I took my older son who’s a 19 in 2019. And we went to this area that is called the Kiso Valley. I don’t know if you’ve heard of the Kiso Valley, but

Max Branstetter 44:29
I’ve heard the name I know nothing about it. But

Nicole Smith 44:32
tween like Tokyo and Kyoto is closer to Kyoto but many don’t know that area, but it’s basically on the old samurai trail. So you know, the old samurai trail would go from like Tokyo down to Kyoto. So it’s like on the old samurai trail, and it’s this little like two little villages that are connected by a forest like old growth forest. There’s mountains in the backdrop, and these two little villages are so historical that they are like floored, like 400 year old buildings in there. And it’s just probably one of the coolest places I’ve ever been in my son felt like that too. Because in one minute you’re in this like 400 year old building. And then you’re like, there’s like old growth forest. And then there’s mountains. And it’s just absolutely that mix of like history and culture and nature. And we met one of my photographers, masa who lives in that area. And we went for lunch with him. And he told us all these stories, and it was like that is the best part of travel to me is those moments where you’re getting all those great stories, you’re learning from a local, you’re seeing the old and you’re seeing nature, and it was just was the best.

Max Branstetter 45:43
It was the best. I was waiting for civilian to be worked into there as well. But now I appreciate the vivid picture. It’s definitely on the bucket list for me. I haven’t been to Asia at all. And in Japan, it just seems so cool. Speaking of bucket list, what is still on your bucket list you haven’t been to yet.

Nicole Smith 45:57
Yeah, so I haven’t been to Australia, New Zealand that that region. I’ve also not been to the Middle East and like in particular Dubai, I’ve had two trips booked to Dubai both got canceled. So now I’m wondering if the universe is like, maybe you shouldn’t go to Dubai. Tough tried to go to Dubai a couple of times one was right before COVID. Yeah. So those will be the areas that I want to get to next.

Max Branstetter 46:20
And then you you I think you read my mind you pretty looted precluded? You preempted this question by mentioning your kids besides Disney World Disneyland, which everybody knows, you know, happy place, happiest place in the world for kids. What’s like a really underrated place that if you’re going to travel with kids, especially little kids is like a really cool spot.

Nicole Smith 46:39
I really think that you can’t go wrong with Portugal, there’s so much to see in Portugal. Like whether you’re in Lisbon, or you’re, you know, up in Porto or you know, there’s just got incredible beaches incredible, like city culture. It’s just a mix of everything. The weather’s lovely, the people are great, the food is great. And it’s more affordable than some of the bigger cities so I would say Portugal

Max Branstetter 47:03
all read my mind. Again, we literally are planning a trip for Portugal and Spain this summer. So well. I’d love to talk to you offline about more specific records and everything but um, we don’t have kids yet, but we’re very excited for for Portugal just sounds like everybody has the best time there. That seems awesome. And we’re starting to practice you know, stretching because I heard it’s a bit uphill in certain parts.

Nicole Smith 47:27
Your calves are gonna get a workout. It’s very hilly. Perfect.

Max Branstetter 47:30
Well, I spend a lot of time on my calves. So that’s, you know, that will just only help now, but and then last one, so I know you’re based out a Victoria Canada, which I’ve never been to before. I’ve only been to Canada. I’ve only been to like the eastern side like Toronto, Ottawa. How do you say it Ottawa, Ottawa, Ottawa, Montreal, Hull, like that, that area? Niagara Falls if we count it. What is your last sales pitch of the episode for if somebody wants to check out Victoria, what’s something really cool to do there?

Nicole Smith 48:03
Victoria is literally the best place in Canada in my opinion. We have the nicest weather in the country, which is a facts. So it’s on an island called Vancouver Island. Victoria is the city at the bottom, but you can come here and there’s like beautiful like we have the oldest Chinatown in Canada, and only second to I think the one in San Francisco in the world. So we’ve got an incredible Chinatown Inner Harbor is beautiful but what is great about Victoria’s you have access to mountains and beaches like Tofino is like an incredible beach. It’s like four hours away by car. World class surfing there. You’ve got old growth forests. You can see whales orcas, everything it’s going great food. So yeah, Canada term and it’s I think now the world is finding out it got rated one of the best places to visit by like Conde Nast travel or something like that. So get in before all the tourists come. Yeah,

Max Branstetter 48:56
exactly. You heard it here first. No thank you. No, it’s it sounds wonderful. And you know after our Portugal trip will be so good at surfing. That we can just come right on over there. But Nicole thank you so much for literally bringing it home right there but thank you so much for for making time today for all you do with flytographer and beyond. Where is the best place for people to try out flytographer as well as if they want to connect with you online.

Nicole Smith 49:18
Yeah, so it’s Flytographer.com and we’re on like Instagram @Flytographer all the social places you normally find and then you can follow me @FlytographerLife or on LinkedIn,

Max Branstetter 49:33
Perfect and then last thing bringing it home extra we’re bringing it going to bring it all home again we just got home Final Thoughts stage is yours it could be a quote just kind of words to live by travel tips, whatever you want. Send us home here.

Nicole Smith 49:46
I say my favorite one of my favorites. Things that I say is everything is figured out double. And I say that because a lot of founders are like oh like I don’t know how to do this or what do we do? I think that and Marie Forleo So I wrote a book about this but I really believe that everything is figuroutable and you just got to take action start doing start going and make some progress and learn.

Max Branstetter 50:13
Figure it out. Well, yeah. Thank you so much, Nicole for coming on the podcast sharing your super fly see what I did there flytographer story. And thank you, Wild Listeners, for tuning in to another episode. If you want to hear more Wild stories like this one, make sure to follow the Wild Business Growth Podcast on your favorite podcast app. And check us out on YouTube. Make sure to subscribe there we are on YouTube @MaxBranstetter. And you could also find us on Goodpods where they’re good podcast recommendations and podcast people. And for any help with podcast production, you can learn more at MaxPodcasting.com and sign up for the Podcasting to the Max newsletter. It is where podcasting meets entrepreneurship and terrible puns, just turrible as Charles Barkley says, and you can sign up at MaxPodcasting.com/Newsletter. Until next time, let your business Run Wild…Bring on the Bongos!!