Full Transcript – Kenny Dunn – Wild Business Growth Podcast #332

This is the full transcript for Episode #332 of the Wild Business Growth podcast featuring Kenny Dunn – Eating Europe Founder, Food Tour Trailblazer. You can listen to the interview and learn more here. Please note: this transcript is not 100% accurate.

Kenny Dunn 0:00
The journey is the destination.

Max Branstetter 0:17
Don’t stop believing Welcome back to Wild Business Growth. This your place to hear from a wild entrepreneur every single Wednesday morning turning wild ideas to Wild Growth. And I am your host. Max Branstetter, founder and Podcast Producer at MaxPodcasting, you can email me at , this is episode 332, that’s a lot of thfifth sounds, and today’s guest is Kenny Dunn. Kenny is the founder and CEO of Eating Europe, the best food tour company in, you guessed it, Australia. No, I’m just kidding, Europe. In this episode, we talk Kenny’s astoundingly organic journey, creating eating Europe, how they have perfected and continually perfect the food tour, while expanding to so many different countries and cities and an extremely tasty all food version of rapid Fire, Q, a, oh, my God. It is Kenny.

Enjoy, the food tour.

Alrighty. We are here with Kenny Dunn, founder and CEO of Eating Europe, the first guest we’ve ever had on to actually eat Europe. So congratulations on that. But really, really, really food, really, really, really food tour company, that’s true. I sound like a caveman. Cool food tour company, Dana and I have had the experience, the pleasure of experiencing ourselves over the past year. Kenny, thank you so much for joining. How you doing today?

Kenny Dunn 1:55
I’m doing great. Really excited to be here. Thanks. Max,

Max Branstetter 1:59
yeah, of course, of course, my pleasure. So we’re gonna get into all things eating Europe and our own experiences. You might have slightly more experiences than I do with eating

Kenny Dunn 2:09
Europe. It’s probably, yeah, the smart money is

Max Branstetter 2:12
that we’re a betting man, but before we get to that. So travel has been something that’s been a huge part of your life for a while. And I heard that years before you started eating eating Europe, you actually were planning to do, like, a trip around the world, but kind of got stuck in New Zealand. Can you share, like, how that all went down?

Kenny Dunn 2:31
I mean, there’s two kind of detours of that. One is, as you said, I bought this round the world ticket, and I don’t know if they still exist, but it’s such a cool concept. I mean, you pay one price, it was like 1000 bucks, and you can have as many different flights as possible. So I had this incredible itinerary in New Zealand, then New Zealand, Australia, then to Indonesia, then to India. There was like nine different countries. I don’t remember how many different flights. The first stop was New Zealand. I ended up like stumbling in this little town called Golden Bay, which sounds as idyllic as the name gives the impression. And, you know, month went by two, three. Eventually, I’m like, two weeks from my not only my visa expiring, but my ticket. So I’m like, All right, well, I might as well get two flights out of this, I did fly from New Zealand to Australia, so I ended up just having an amazing year in New Zealand and no regrets. But it wasn’t the around the world adventure that I was expecting.

Max Branstetter 3:35
That’s how New Zealand gets you. You plan to do one thing, I have to stop real quick, because you, you said it was like 1000 bucks for around the world ticket. That’s like the price for us to fly to Cleveland. Now, I’m from Cleveland. It’s not just a random Cleveland

Kenny Dunn 3:47
flight, but that was 22 years ago, but there has been a bit of inflation

Max Branstetter 3:52
last two decades, for sure. What was it about New Zealand that got you, quote, unquote stuck there?

Kenny Dunn 3:58
So I ended up stumbling into a program called wolf

Max Branstetter 4:02
Wolfing. Have you heard of it? Just from this interview prep book. Can you explain

Kenny Dunn 4:06
it? Willing? It’s an acronym, willing workers on organic farms. And I’m pretty sure it still exists. And basically the idea, I mean, it used to be a book, I’m sure there’s a website now, and you’d find a host in a town, they would put you up. The kind of exchange was you would do four hours of work, which could be kind of working in the garden. I built some houses, you know, I learned all kinds of new skills. They’d put you up. And then you’d basically, kind of, maybe like couch surfing more than Airbnb. You know, there was this idea like, Hey, we’re going to show you around. Let’s take you to the beach. Let’s go surfing. So I ended up doing this Wolfing at this organic community garden in that area called Golden Bay, which I mentioned. And then that led to a job fundraising for. The organization. I met all these cool people. I was given a trailer at the time. I mean, my hair was like, halfway down my back. I was totally hippie, living in this broken down trailer in the middle of a garden. And I just said, what could be better than this? That’s where I stayed very happily, like I said, for most of the year, but it was because of that program that kind of sent me down that path.

Max Branstetter 5:26
Woofing sounds like a Ryan Howard startup from the office. You said, like you’re you’re really happy there, even though it’s like you’re kind of like living in somebody else’s place, not exactly your highest income earning years. What was so like happy about that lifestyle?

Kenny Dunn 5:43
Yeah, great question. I mean, so I had been living in New York City, so some of it was just kind of being in a very different environment. You know, more connected to nature, that part of, I mean, New Zealand in general, is just a gorgeous country. That little pocket of New Zealand is not just my opinion, considered one of the most beautiful little spots, so that was a big part of it. I had never like. I knew nothing. I always liked eating, and we’ll kind of probably the conversation will get into that eating and traveling and trying new foods, but I knew nothing about growing food. So that was the first time in my life, like we never had a garden growing up. There was none of that where suddenly I was learning, like, Ah, this is what a cucumber looks like on the vine, you know. Or this is, this is how you plant seedlings. And so I was learning all that. And then, like with so many experiences, it comes down to the people you know, who you’re with, and I just connected with this incredible group of people from all over who were, you know, living in that town, people who were who were based there, others who were doing this kind of program for A year, and just found, kind of my tribe, and said, Yeah, I want to keep having experiences with them. And kind of the whole part of point of that round the world trip, which ended up just being a New Zealand trip in the first part, it was kind of this, like I had a different business, which I just sold my shares to, to my business partner at the time, and was like, I want to see the world. I want to discover myself. So it just felt like those things were happening, and that was kind of the mission of the trip. More than seeing the Taj Mahal and ticking all these boxes, it was like, I just want to leave the United States and experience the great wide world. It felt like I was doing that and meet new people and have new inspirations and experiences and all that.

Max Branstetter 7:54
So let’s see the world and hear the world. Let’s get to eating Europe. So obviously, passion for travel and food and cool experiences like that, which, like, real bummer. I mean, you’re probably the only one in the world who likes that. That’s really strange of you. No, it is, like, It’s the highlight of like, every year, like every trip is like the food and meeting people and experiences and drink as well. So I think you really stumbled onto something, but eating Europe. So at some point I heard it was love that actually brought you to Italy in the first place. What’s, what’s the short and sweet love story that got you there?

Kenny Dunn 8:30
So the love story, which does have a little asterisk, but it still was a love story. So I met my ex wife in grad school. So after this, what ended up being an around the world trip, just not on that one ticket. I decided I wanted to work in international development, because I’d done some other projects in some countries on that trip, like in Indonesia and then Colombia, etc. So I ended up going back to grad school to get a master’s in international development. Met my ex wife. She got a job at the UN in Rome. People just know Rome for the Coliseum, the Vatican, all the great food. But there’s also three very large and important UN agencies. We moved there, you know, I was just following her, and then kind of two years later is when I ultimately started what later became eating Europe. But so I moved to just follow her and her career, which took us to Rome, Italy.

Max Branstetter 9:31
So you’re in Rome, you probably didn’t know right away that eating Europe would be a thing. What made you the jump from like just starting to live there, getting a feel for Rome to actually, like, this is a real business. We can make the time of people’s lives in this thing.

Kenny Dunn 9:47
Well, like a lot of times in life, you know, kind of crisis leads to kind of some creative spark or something good comes out of kind of a crisis, or a bad or low. Moment. So I also got a job at a different UN agency called the World Food Program. It was just a year. It wasn’t a great fit. I wasn’t very happy. And so when that ended, I really was like, What am I going to do? My wife was had this incredible job, which she loved, and was on this great career path. And I felt, think I was 32 like, completely lost, because I’m living in Rome, and I don’t want to go back to the UN and what am I going to do? Like so, so at that time, we had tons of visitors. When you move to a place as desirable as Italy, especially in the beginning, everybody wants to visit you. So we had, like, 22 friends, friends of friends, relatives come in those first like, call it year and a half. And you can only do the, you know, the Coliseum and Vatican so many times before you’re like, you go on your own, you know, so. But what I did love doing was taking them around my neighborhood. So I was living in this neighborhood called Testaccio, and I’m like, All right, today I’m going to introduce you to Armando, who’s the barista at the bar where I get my cappuccino. Then we’re going to go to the market. You’re going to meet Cesare, my Bucha. I’m going to introduce you to Francesca and her sister, Paola, where I buy all my fruit and vegetable, and then we’ll be at Enzo and Lena for the cheese, etc. And so that was, like, what we would do, we would just go around the neighborhood and I tell them little stories and anecdotes about these people who kind of became, you know, like part of my extended community. Let’s say I started doing that, and everyone’s like, Hey, that was so much fun. And ultimately it’s like, I think this might be a business at the time. There were no food tours in Rome, and food tours in general as kind of a product or a concept, was still quite early days. It was very nascent back then. And so it wasn’t like, Oh, let me check out this person who’s already doing this instead, you know, I just started thinking and kind of trying to figure out, how could this turn into kind of something more structured, and what would this look like? And ultimately, started working on the business plan for a food tour company in Rome, which I originally called eating Italy, food tours. I

Max Branstetter 12:22
don’t even need to ask how you evolved the name over the years. That one I got

Kenny Dunn 12:27
that’s all on their podcast.

Max Branstetter 12:30
Yeah, carve out a whole day for that one. Yeah. But how did you find the courage in that moment to start a food tour company when it wasn’t nearly as popular a thing?

Kenny Dunn 12:39
Then again, I mean, I was feeling pretty desperate the options, you know, if you’re a foreigner living in Rome, I mean, tourism is your best market. Most people I knew were teaching English as a second language, working at the UN or doing translation, you know, from Italian English and vice versa. My Italian wasn’t good enough I did years before English as a second language. Didn’t like that at all. And so as I need to, you know, find something for me and I had already done, had other businesses. I’ve kind of been an entrepreneur since I was a teenager. So that was something very comfortable for me. So as soon as the idea started to really, kind of gain some traction, first in my head, as something that might have legs, kind of taking the next step to start it as a business wasn’t such a huge leap, because working as an entrepreneur felt at home, I liked the idea that I could be my own boss, and it was exciting to kind of have something that suddenly I was working towards, where, for the last kind of year, I felt very much lost and a bit aimless.

Max Branstetter 13:58
I love how these are, like my favorite moments of entrepreneurial stories when somebody is literally, like, desperate, lost, aimless, like, depressed, like, there’s, there’s so many different words to describe, like, the space that you’re in and like, it’s amazing how just somehow that factors into, like, the melting pot of, like, a business, you know, explosive idea, The urgency was definitely there for those, like, very first tours, how did you get the word out, other than just kind of being like a, what’s it called, like a busker on the street corner, just like, hey, hey,

Kenny Dunn 14:33
I did ride around on my bike handing out flyers. I don’t think, I don’t think I got a single client from that effort. It was a good workout, yeah, good workout. And just stopping random people in the street, you know, TripAdvisor, which obviously still has, you know, huge footprint within kind of the travel space back then, had a much bigger one. This is before Google reviews and Yelp. Even though Yelp was around, then Yelp for kind of going abroad or the travel space, especially outside the United States, yeah, wasn’t something that people really looked to. So TripAdvisor was kind of the one and only place where you could go to not only kind of discover things to do in that area, but also, of course, read reviews. You know, I had the website, but of course, I wasn’t getting any direct traffic. So those early bookings came through TripAdvisor, and being the only food tour, even though the the idea of a food tour was still relatively new, I guess some people had probably heard of it, there were food tours in New York and Chicago and some other cities at the time, and so being listed on TripAdvisor as the only food tour meant I had some people come to my TripAdvisor page book, and then, you know, I made sure they left a review. So the reviews started to accumulate, and I started to climb the rankings on TripAdvisor. And back then, if you can make it on the first page of trip advisors, 20 different listings. That was your ticket. That was your willy wonka golden ticket. And I eventually made it on the first page of TripAdvisor. And then that’s when things really kind of took off.

Max Branstetter 16:18
Nice travel pun there with the ticket. By the way, you had your around the world ticket of TripAdvisor review. I know you appreciate your pun, so, yeah, just just one every now and then every few seconds. But what are some of the differences between the tours that you guys do now versus, like those early pressure testing, stress testing tours?

Kenny Dunn 16:37
Yeah, that’s a good question. I mean, I’ve really tried to stay true to the original kind of formula, and the idea there was to kind of really bring together a few different elements. So one, of course, is the food. You know, what are the iconic foods, in this case, in Rome that I wanted people to try, that I felt like you can’t leave Rome without having a soup leave, which is a fried risotto ball.

Max Branstetter 17:04
Wait, hold on, that’s, that’s so that’s different than arancini.

Kenny Dunn 17:07
Yeah. So one is Sicilian, and they’re bigger. The Sicilian version, they’re not cooked in a meat sauce. The Sicilian version, there’s generally, like, peas and other stuff. And they’re kind of more shaped, like kind of a rounded cornered pyramid. The Roman ones look more like an oversized egg, kind of like a Scottish egg, if you’ve ever had that in the UK. And it’s kind of risotto cooked in a meat sauce, and then some mozzarella is put in the middle, it’s rolled in breadcrumbs and fried. And the idea is, when you break it open, there’s the long strand of mozzarella, if it’s done properly. And so they call it telephone souply, because it looks like an old telephone cable. Anyway, those were some of the items. So that was obviously one component. The other thing, which I think kind of really set what I was doing apart, was I really wanted to tell the stories of the people behind the food so early on, and I led all the tours for the first year. I was the tour guide, the Chief Marketing Officer, the CEO everything, customer service director, I really wanted. So I kind of interviewed all the different, you know, the names I was throwing out before Armando from the bar and Cesare the butcher. We didn’t eat anything from Cesare, but I still wanted his story. So when we stopped there and we talked about what you buy at a Roman butcher, that I could say this is Cesare, while his family has been here for three generations, and I had a picture of Cesare when he was six with his dad and his grandfather in the exact same spot. And that was like a big part of really trying to allow people to connect, even though, like my guests, my clients, to connect with the people behind the food, even if there wasn’t a language that they shared, because most of them, most of the vendors, as we call them, like the people at the shops and restaurants, didn’t speak English, but to hear their story, and they, you know, exchange some gestures and stuff. So that was the other real component. And then also, you know, make it more than just a food tour. And by that, I mean, you know, incorporate things about the neighborhood, how people live, some of the historic sites, some of the more cultural ones, you know, street art, etc. That was the formula to kind of weave together those three elements, the food, the people, kind of the neighborhood. And that’s still kind of our recipe for second pun for every one of every one of our tours, and where it changes is, obviously, in Rome, it’s going to be different than in Amsterdam, which is going to be different in Athens. But we try and really kind of put those three things front and center with every tour. We create?

Max Branstetter 20:01
Well, you’re up to two puns in 20 minutes. This is getting a lot to handle, so it might need to slow your rope a little bit, but that formula you’ve concocted, like a perfect arancini or soupy, I probably said that wrong. Thank you. I think that interviewing, piece of like interviewing, you know, like the butcher and the baker, and like everybody behind the delicious food that you experience is really, really clever and kind of like ahead of its time as I feel like, I mean, obviously there’s so many different food tour companies out there, and many of them, I’m sure, have partnerships like you’ve built, you know, relationships with different restaurants and bars over the years. But I don’t know how many go the extra mile to actually learn, you know, like, interview the owner or the, you know, customer facing person and like, actually learn, like, what’s your story? Like, what’s your family’s story? And I think that’s like, a huge difference. That’s what makes it such a sweet, fun experience. Because it’s not just like, All right, we had an awesome time. We had great food, you know, we bounced around in these places. It’s like, you really get a sense of the culture and the history, and just like the people of the neighborhood you’re in as well. So I think that’s like an amazing insight that you had.

Kenny Dunn 21:13
I mean, one of the things that makes food tours ours, but just the food tour in general, special, and I think why it has, you know, they’ve caught on and continued to grow so much over the last, you know, 10 or 15 years is because when you’re traveling somewhere, it’s kind of unique to have that opportunity to interface and interact with locals, to kind of dig under the surface and have your guide, or maybe some of the restaurant owners kind of describe things about what life is like in that city, you know, because when you travel, for me, it was always wanting, you know, of course, you want to see the main sites, you know, the Coliseum, the Vatican, the louver, the Eiffel Tower, etc. But what you’re really trying to do when you travel, I think, is get a taste of how people live in that city, and obviously kind of compare it to your life back home and and so the food tour really offers that and those stories, and kind of bringing them and hearing how this guy started working here when he was nine and, or this is his hours. He’s here every 4am you know the guy at one of the delis we go to opens up or starts doing the work at 4am all that stuff are like little insights into life in that city. And so that’s what I want to do. And the other thing is, for them, imagine being a butcher like, when do you have someone interviewing you? This is, you know, a butcher in this little neighborhood market and showing your picture, and having people come up and ask to have a picture with you. So it was amazing to see the response from them, who suddenly, you know, like, we’re getting some well deserved attention. And oftentimes, you know, our groups would have questions, so I would translate and ask them questions about their story. And I think that was, you know, quite rewarding for, you know, for our partners as well. So that was really nice to see too.

Max Branstetter 23:16
Well, I have to shout out one of your tour guides, Ricardo, who was our tour guide on the Lisbon I want to say it was like, heart of Lisbon food tour, or something like that. And so it’s actually about, about a year ago, Dana and I went on that tour and shout our friends, Jason, Alyssa, who who recommended they’re like, you have to do an eating Europe tour and in Lisbon. But so we had the best time on that tour. And just from like our in today, that’s our loan experience with eating Europe. But next time we’re in Europe, we’ll definitely do it, do more. Do it, do more. We just didn’t, hadn’t heard of you guys beforehand, and it was like afterwards. We were like, wow, that was like the perfect mix of, like, a great sampler of all the foods that you’d want to try your first time in Lisbon or first time in Portugal. It was all that. But then Ricardo had, like, the perfect mix of history and, like modern day culture that he was talking through as well. And the way you kind of weave, especially in that city, it’s so up and down, but the way you kind of weave through some different neighborhoods, and it takes you, you know, from like, a small, kind of off the beaten path area, and you end up kind of in a main area, like it was just like a perfectly executed tour. So, so there’s your verbal Trip Advisor review, but I think the tour guide piece is crucial. What do you look for in eating Europe tour guides?

Kenny Dunn 24:27
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the tour guide is such a key component to whether or not a tour is going to be great. I mean, you can have the best food, the best stops, you know, have done all the research and the stories, but if the person delivering the tour doesn’t have the ability to connect with, you know, the guests they have with them, then it’s going to fall flat, or going to be a lot worse than it would otherwise. So that ability to connect with people and tell stories and kind. To bring stories to life is a huge component. And so we really, when we interview potential candidates, we’re really looking at, do we think that they have that kind of human component? We like to say that, like our tour guides, are kind of part party hosts, where you’re having to make sure everyone at your party is comfortable, is happy that you’re giving time to each one, and at the same time, you’re also kind of like having to describe all the things that they’re experiencing. And then, of course, the other part so one part is kind of storytelling, human connection. Another part is, what do they know about food? Some of our guides worked as chefs. Other guides have been in the restaurant industry forever. A lot more guides than I would have thought. You know, their family had some kind of history with food, so they grew up kind of around kitchens and restaurants and all of that. Some, you know, actually have more of a formal education. In Italy, there’s a slow food University in broad in Piedmont. And so a number of our guides have come through there. The background is really different, but it’s really important. They like being with people, or curious with people, and also are a real kind of evangelist for their city and for their city’s food, because if they’re not enthusiastic about it, then neither will our guests who are there, kind of experiencing

Max Branstetter 26:32
it. And speaking of enthusiasm, I didn’t even mention that it will, and it doesn’t have to be this way if you’re not a drinker or, you know, you got something busy to do that later that day. But the several stops that we went on that food tour, it was like a beautiful mix of different drinks, you know, local and drinks that you could get, you know, outside of Portugal as well. And so it just made it that much more fun. And obviously, you know, when you’re having a good time and got a little bit of drink going on, it makes it that much easier to connect with, you know, other people, new friends that are on the tour as well in a group setting, or even strangers or people that are at the locations you’re at. So that’s a nice thing to add into the cocktail as well. You

Kenny Dunn 27:11
asked me the difference between those first tours and tours. Now, I think the alcohol that took me a little while to learn that when people have a little buzz going, everything is more fun. I mean, in the beginning, like the wine, I just had it served with the pasta, and now it’s like, Let’s Get everyone a nice glass of wine to kick things off, a glass of Prosecco, a spritz or, you know, or a beer, if it’s an Amsterdam or Prague, just to get people feeling loose. So that’s been a shift for sure.

Max Branstetter 27:43
By the way, the Lisbon, I think they called it Imperial, the little like half size beers compared to what we’re used to in the States. I’m used to drinking like a full size beer. And so at first I was like, oh, what’s interesting? They like drink tiny beers here. And then I realized, like, wow, if you’re if you’re doing a full day or bouncing around from place to place, it’s much more sustainable to have beers this size versus full size one you hinted earlier at that transition from eating Italy to eating Europe. And obviously there’s a lot of growth and expansion there, but I think it’s really, really difficult to grow well, not only grow in general, but grow to like multiple countries while keeping your same brand and kind of core principles together. How have you been able to do that? To date, that

Kenny Dunn 28:25
has been something that we I’ve been very kind of focused on, because that’s the thing. I mean, my biggest fear is someone does a tour with us in one city, let’s say, in Rome, and has a certain expectation, and then they go somewhere else and like, oh, you know, that didn’t live up to what I experienced over there. And what’s challenging is there are so many every city, it’s a different culture, a different cuisine, different marketplace in terms of guides, you know, local economy, etc. So in some cities it’s very easy to recruit guides in other cities, it’s very hard the willingness and the participation of the restaurant owners in certain southern countries, you know, they’re very warm, and more northern ones, it might take a little longer to really get them to kind of open up and feel connected. So it has been challenging to try and offer a similar experience while knowing that there’s so many different variables that are different in every place we go. One of the things is really starting with the local managers. So in every city, we hire a local manager, and really they’re the one who’s like holding those values, the values of what is it that we want every customer to kind of experience on a tour? Some of it is kind of down the like, the elements of the tour that I talked about earlier. But even more than that, like, what is the kind of guide community that we want? You know, what? How, what kind of. Relationships do we want to have with our food partners? So it starts with that person, and we, you know, spend a lot of time trying to find the right person, because in almost every city, except for our bigger ones, it’s only one local manager who has that responsibility. We also do a lot with our onboarding and training, getting them to different cities, so they kind of can really experience what is an eating Europe food tour, what is like the eating Europe kind of local community amongst the manager and the guides and the vendors, and so let them experience that firsthand, and then go off and create that in their locality. And then, if it’s not myself, I have some other incredible people who go to each city and work very carefully to get that city set up, to trial the tour, you know, that first tour, to pilot it, to try it, to refine it, you know, goes through those different iterative steps before we’re like, Yep, this is ready. Let’s put it online, sell it. And so those are some of the controls that we put in place to ensure that we have that quality standard. And then if something is not going according to plan, and occasionally it does, either myself or one of my product manager or one of our regional managers, you know, parachutes in and works with the local manager to try and figure out, what do we need to do to get this back on track, kind of thing?

Max Branstetter 31:34
Well, you segue that perfectly, because I want to dive a little bit more behind the scenes into like your process and how you create these amazing tours. And I think the the first big question is, like, when you’re looking at a new country to expand to, as you’ve done several times now over the years, what is it that makes something jump out of you? It’s like, All right, here’s, here’s the next place we can actually turn this

Kenny Dunn 31:58
real well, a lot of it. I mean, I think anywhere you go. I mean, we have food tours in cities where the local cuisine is iconic, like Rome, like Paris, you know, like Athens now, as it’s becoming more known, as you experienced in Lisbon. And then we have food tours in cities where people either don’t know much about the food or what they do, know, doesn’t jump out as being all that exciting. You know, maybe a city like Prague or Berlin or Amsterdam where it’s like, no, what do people eat in Amsterdam? And in all those places, we’ve managed to create a product, an experience, where people come away and say, like, oh, yeah, that was amazing. You know, that was so much fun. The food was so delicious. As soon as I realized that when we started expanding in the cities like Amsterdam and Prague, you know, you could create an incredible food tour there, then it became less about trying to just, you know, start with the cuisine. And it was more about where are people going, it was more of a traditional kind of market analysis. Like most of our customers are North American. So where are American, North Americans traveling to, and what is the competitive landscape? And you know, how many other things to do are there in cities where there’s a million things to do, then you’re because you’re also competing against the Vatican and the Coliseum and all these other things, not just against other food tours. As we’ve grown it’s been more about what markets are ripe for us to open up, where we think we can gain traction relatively early, where we think our market segment. There’s enough of them there where people spend more than just one day in that destination, rather than what city has the most unique or compelling cuisine that we want to build a food tour around.

Max Branstetter 33:56
So yeah, that’s actually an interesting point. If you’re in Amsterdam, for example, there’s a million, well, there’s, there’s pancake if you’ve been there, there’s a million, like, pancake houses. But there’s also, I just love this word, Stroopwafel. There’s a million Stroopwafel providers as well. So like, if you’re, if you’re deciding between which Stroopwafel place to check out in Amsterdam, what is it that, like speaks, how do you decide that to make an official eating Europe tour stop.

Kenny Dunn 34:22
I mean, one thing to start with, just understand me, we are kind of restricted by geography. Oftentimes we’ll choose like the Yordan is a neighborhood where we offer tours in Amsterdam. So we decided on the Yordan. Why? Because it’s a beautiful, picturesque neighborhood. There’s a lot of little shops. It’s got a great story, like the neighborhood itself. Well, when we first opened that tour, just speaking of that specifically, which was like 11 years ago, there weren’t many tours, so it felt off the beaten path. Now it’s become a bit more on the beaten path. First it’s there. So now we’re talking about stroke, waffle places. Just in the you’re done, not to say there’s only one, but there’s not a million. There might be three. And then, you know, you’re looking at the story of the place. And by that, I mean partly like the actual history, how did it start? And things like that. But more just like the story, meaning like its location, the feeling it get, you know, like, maybe we want a market stall, so we’re looking for a stroke waffle vendor in the middle of a market, because we want to feature the market so the surroundings, does it offer an opportunity to engage with the stroke waffle shop owner? What is the physical space like? Can our group of eight or 10 people actually fit there? If not? What does that mean? Where can we go? Is there? You know, there’s a lot of different considerations that goes into it. Ideally, it fits really nicely on the route. If we have some other pieces, you know, it’s got a great story. The owner or owners are engaged and willing. The place itself is kind of evocative and has some unique characteristics to it. That’s kind of what we’re going for. Sometimes you have to compromise on one thing. I mean, we never compromise on the quality of the food. I mean, that has to be the you know, they need to be doing it the right way, the authentic way that this represents. You know, how soup Lee are made, how strobe offer are made, or they have a unique spin to it, but some of the other things, like, maybe it’s not we wish it was on a quieter Street. It’s more on a busy one, but we’ll take it because this is the best apple pie in Amsterdam, or this place has been around, which is the case, we go to a place in Amsterdam. The place is from the 1500s it’s one of the oldest brown cafes in the city. So just to walk in there, you’re just like, talk about an evocative location. There is so much history, and the apple pie is outstanding. Just ask Bill Clinton. There’s a picture of him, a letter from him that he says, like, this is the best apple pie I’ve ever had in my life. So, yeah, you’re kind of looking at different things. Sometimes you get it all, and sometimes, you know, oftentimes location is the thing that you might have to compromise with.

Max Branstetter 37:17
And to that location point, are there any like, key principles that make, like, a really good route for eating Europe tour, you

Kenny Dunn 37:26
know, the distance we try and stay. I mean, we’re thinking, it’s Europe, so kilometers, you know, no more than two kilometers. We want to have a couple locations. Right off the bat. Sometimes people come to the tour and you’re starving. The last thing you want. The worst thing that can happen is like, we’re going to go for this half hour walk before we give you anything to eat or drinks. We want you to come and within like five maybe, in the extreme case, 10 minutes, you are enjoying something delicious local. And then we want to follow that up with something quickly afterward. I mentioned at the top, like, I like from the beginning, this is more than just a food tour. So it’s not just food, it’s other things. So we’re always looking at how the route can include, you know, something historic, like in Paris, we go in the Marais, these just gorgeous gardens, you know, and we stop there and we have one of the tastings there. Or, you know, in London, we see some of the famous street art that Banksy did. We’re always trying to, like, how can, if we know that the neighborhood has some of these really interesting sites, how do we kind of weave them into the root so it’s very much like a puzzle, you know you’re trying to there’s certain things you want, and it’s just about moving the pieces around to figure out what is the best route to kind of connect all these different elements.

Max Branstetter 38:54
So let’s put the final pieces of the eating Europe puzzle together. We’re going to wrap up with rapid fire Q and A that this. I know you’re more than just food, but these questions are just food because I couldn’t resist you. Ready for it? Ready? Fire away. All right. Let’s get wild. Let’s get hungry and then satisfied. What would you say is your favorite breakfast in Europe? Oh,

Kenny Dunn 39:12
geez, Pan au Chocolat in Paris.

Max Branstetter 39:18
All right, what is the most unique food available on one of your tours that a lot of tourists would probably be kind of surprised by,

Kenny Dunn 39:28
I would say, lampredotto, which is part of the stomach lining of the cow. This is in Florence. It’s probably the most popular street food in Florence. It’s a panino filled with lampredotto with a green sauce made from parsley. It’s one of these things that’s like, I won’t like that. And every time we we just plead with our guests, just try it. And 95% of time like, oh my god, this is really good.

Max Branstetter 39:57
That’s the winner. Oh, I know. There’s a little bit of a Rome Florence rivalry. But whenever I hear, whenever I hear Florence, I get that warm, fuzzy feeling in my heart, because Dan and I kicked off our honeymoon there. Oh wow. Oh my God. What a town. I mean, Rome is as well, but what a town for walkability and eating and drinking. Oh my God,

Kenny Dunn 40:15
and the shops. There’s, it’s, oh yeah. Well,

Max Branstetter 40:19
that’s, that’s me, the Puchi Gucci. All right, if you had a friend or family member that was visiting Europe on just a short layover and could only have one meal in Europe, this is some fictional world where they could have any meal in Europe. What would you recommend they could only have one

Kenny Dunn 40:35
so there’s a restaurant in Rome called spirito divino, and they have a wine cellar that’s 90 years older than the Coliseum. So I would have them go there. It’s a slow, if you know, slow food. So everything is local. It’s a certified slow food restaurant. I’d have them have the pork shoulder just slowly cooked for about six hours as a segundo their second dish starting. So I went in opposite order here, starting with their take on the carbonara, where they had saffron, then the pork shoulder. They make the best crema COTA, which is like the Italian version of creme brulee I’ve ever had in my life. And while they’re drinking their wine, Francesco, the owner will take you down to this cellar and tell you about the history. So the location is just one of a kind. So between the food and the location, if you had one stop in Europe on this fictional layover, that’s where it

Max Branstetter 41:34
seems. Oh, my God, that sounds wonderful. I felt like I was being transported there as you were talking. So I think you’re a poet as well, all right? And then you hinted at the wine other than wine, what would you say is like just absolutely delicious type of alcohol that you can experience somewhere on one

Kenny Dunn 41:54
of your tours. I mean, it’s not a taste for everyone, but universe is like the kind of local gin spirit in in the Netherlands, so I would say that, or schlivitz, I think it’s called in Prague. It’s like a brandy, and I might be butchering it. And my manager, Ava, in Prague, when she hears this, is going to be so upset if I am, but something that sounds very similar to Schlitz. Got

Max Branstetter 42:24
it? Well, you have to let us know. Eva, but yeah, I love those, like distinct little liquors, the cores in different places, the Lisbon, what they call

Kenny Dunn 42:32
it, ginginia, yeah, or ginginia that’s tied for Yeah. That

Max Branstetter 42:37
was really cool because it’s like the cherry liqueur that you drink in, like a little chocolate shot glass that obviously is edible as well. So eating and drinking at the same time is pretty special.

Kenny Dunn 42:46
It’s my answer, gemia in the time.

Max Branstetter 42:49
There you go. And then last one, you already mentioned, an amazing dessert in Italy. But if you had to pick a country that does dessert best, other than Italy, what would you say,

Kenny Dunn 43:00
wow, it’s tough to not say France. I mean, that’s kind of the obvious answer. But as a maybe more surprising one, you know, whether it’s the Czech Republic or Austria, but any of the Austrian Hungarian empire where they have these just beautiful old cafes, these historic old cafes, and these just wonderful cakes. And so you’d go there and, have you know, you feel like you’re going back in time, it’s like a Grand Budapest Hotel feeling, yeah, these opulent cafes and these beautiful desserts. And so a lot of those, that’s a real experience too.

Max Branstetter 43:38
I like that line, whenever you feel like you’re going back in time. That is like a truly special experience takes you out of the day to day. Kenny, you survived it. Thank you so much. This has been absolutely fantastic. Huge fan. You know, we’re huge fans of eating Europe. Obviously, we have friends are we’re recommending you to friends and family as well. Can’t recommend eating Europe enough. And shout out Ricardo and Lisbon if I know, if anybody wants to try out eating Europe or learn more about what you offer. You can go to eating europe.com you also have a, I don’t know if this is you could sign up on the site, or if it’s once you’ve signed up for a tour, but you have fantastic newsletters as well that kind of talk about the really cool food and drinks in each location. So huge fan of that. But where else, if somebody wants to connect with your company or you online, where’s the best place to do

Kenny Dunn 44:21
that? Instagram. I mean, we have a huge following on Instagram. You know, we put out really cool content. So yeah, Instagram on the website, you mentioned the newsletter. We have a really active blog as well, Tiktok. So, you know, anywhere on social media, yeah, or come to one of our cities, connect with us in person. Let’s eat together next time you’re in

Max Branstetter 44:41
Rome. Absolutely, that sounds great, perfect. You’re

Kenny Dunn 44:45
in anywhere in Europe? Yeah, anywhere, sure.

Max Branstetter 44:48
Perfect. I can’t wait. Well, thanks again. Kenny, last thing, final thoughts. It could be a quote, a line, just kind of words to live by, travel by or eat by, send us home here,

Kenny Dunn 44:58
the journey is the death. The Nation,

Max Branstetter 45:03
destinations on destinations. Thank you. Dunn, Kenny for coming on wild business growth, all you’re doing with eating Europe and thank you wild listeners for tuning in to another episode. If you want to hear more wild stories like Kenny’s, make sure to follow wild business growth on your favorite podcast platform and subscribe on YouTube for the video versions. YouTube is @MaxBranstetter, I always get out of breath saying my name because it’s so long, but you can type it. I believe in you, you can learn all things about the podcast, about the Podcasting to the Max newsletter about all things podcast production at MaxPodcasting.com and until next time and perhaps your first Eating Europe tour, Let your business Run Wild…Bring on the Bongos!!