This is the full transcript for Episode #240 of the Wild Business Growth Podcast featuring Eric Roy – Water Optimizer, Founder of Hydroviv. You can listen to the interview and learn more here. Please note: this transcript is not 100% accurate.
Eric Roy 0:00
90% of what we believe to be true in the emerging literature will one day be proven to be incorrect, so just get used to like being wrong
Max Branstetter 0:23
Hydroviv. Welcome back to the Wild Business Growth Podcast. This is your place to hear from a new entrepreneur every single Wednesday morning who’s turning Wild ideas into Wild growth. I’m your host, Max Branstetter, Founder and Podcast Producer at MaxPodcasting. And you can email me at to save time with your high-quality podcast. This is episode 24 times 10 = 240. Quick math. And today’s guest is Eric Roy. Eric is the Founder and Chief Scientist of Hydroviv, the water filter that is customized to your home’s water. Super cool product super cool story even cooler because when we recorded this there was snow in Maine. And Eric talks about Antarctica so super duper cool. In this episode, we also talk about the intersection between science and entrepreneurship and why more scientists should become entrepreneurs, using the scientific method to build your business, getting used to failure, building out your team. And the most interesting things you can learn to do during a rain delay or the gap between a doubleheader in a baseball game. It is Roy, Eric Roy. Enjoyyyyyy the showwwwwww!
Aaaaaalrightyyyyy we are here with Eric Roy, the artist formerly known as Eric Roy, Founder and Chief Scientist of Hydroviv vive which is really really cool product and since been acquired and just awesome story all around. Eric, so excited to talk to you on many fronts today. How’re you doing today? Thanks for joining.
Eric Roy 2:12
Thanks for Thanks for having me, Max. Everything’s good. We just got some snow up in Maine. So it’s fluffy. It’s fluffy and fun. The dogs will be psyched.
Max Branstetter 2:20
Fluffy and fun. Well, that’s that’s the way to live, right? They’re healthy and fun. How do you keep warm when it is you’re surrounded by a snow globe?
Eric Roy 2:29
Oh, um, my bloods from here. So this is this is comfortable. Like you plopped me in like a Houston summer and I am sweating uncontrollably. So I’ll take winter any day.
Max Branstetter 2:42
Very cool. Very literally cool. Yeah. Excited to get into the hydroviv story. But before that, I was looking at your background and for your PhD, you studied sensor science, engineering and informatics, as well as oceanography, which I mean same, but like how? What is sensor science? Engineering?
Eric Roy 3:04
Yeah. So basically, I got this NSF National Science Foundation Fellowship, that was an interdisciplinary thing. So sensor science, engineering, and informatics is basically, okay, you can either build sensors or, you know, do applied math, what they’re kind of calling data science now. Or, you know, you just engineer new materials, and they want to kind of blend those things, bring those fields together and make useful products. And fortunately, that’s worked out for me that forcing me to think about all of those different areas is has served me pretty well.
Max Branstetter 3:39
Did you always have an interest in the science space?
Eric Roy 3:42
Oh, yeah. Total nerd. Hands down math science nerd.
Max Branstetter 3:46
What is it that? Had you gravitate? I never know if it’s your gravitated to or gravitates to you? But what is it that excited you about science and math and engineering? In the first place?
Eric Roy 3:57
It’s a good question. I don’t really know. It’s just something that’s kind of made sense to me. And when things make sense, that’s something that or at least the ability to pursue something making sense is something that has always interested me. So it’s like, I guess, like, I like puzzles when I was a child. And this is kind of like adult puzzles, basically. So I think there’s probably some a linear progression there.
Max Branstetter 4:21
Definitely. And these are, I mean, the problems you’re tackling are huge, massive, very difficult and abstract puzzles. So that’s good. You have that energy to that space.
Eric Roy 4:31
Well, the, as you kind of alluded to, the problems that I work on are kind of self motivating. So they’re, they are important. We’re not talking about selling sugar drinks to kids here. We’re talking about some pretty big stuff. So it’s easy to easy to get motivated.
Max Branstetter 4:44
How about on the oceanography standpoint, how did that play into things? So
Eric Roy 4:48
it was super sweet. So I was I did an undergrad in chemistry at a school called Colby College up in Maine, and I was looking at PhD programs and I was talking to some, you know, very, very big chemistry departments and Have you basically this professor, you mean was in oceanography? And he’s like, Yeah, I mean, if you come to you, man in two years, you know, you can go get a master’s degree in two years, I’ll take you to Antarctica. And I’m like, say nothing more. So, sold. Let’s do that sold. Yeah, sticking around for a doctorate there. Because I was able to, within the confines of the oceanography department, I was really able to get into that interdisciplinary fellowship. So basically, the sensors that I made in that sensor, science, engineering, informatics, I just use them in the ocean. So that was kind of like how I like check the oceanography box, but I’m a chemist, like for sure.
Max Branstetter 5:36
You or have the quickest pronunciation of sensor science, engineering and informatics I’ve ever heard it well deserved. Yeah. And it’s a good thing that you’re comfortable with the cold because Antarctica, I think I think it’s one of the things that’s really fascinating to a lot of people, but it’s probably a lot of people that wouldn’t want to go there just because it is so freezing cold. But I mean, it’s the thought of being somewhere that is so remote is is definitely intriguing. How was your experience in Antarctica? The thing
Eric Roy 6:00
that’s super weird about Antarctica wasn’t the cold for me, because I was down there and Antarctic summer, right. So, you know, it was kind of in the 20s. And it was like 80 degrees and sunny now, like 2530 degrees out, which is like, main spring, right? So it wasn’t that that thing that’s super weird, though, is that it’s light out 24 hours a day. And like because of the ozone hole, you can actually get a sunburn through your tent. So like, when you were out in the field, you’d put on sunscreen on your face. Because, you know, I did my fieldwork in a place where there was no snow shelters or anything. So we were intense. If we were overnighting. And you had to you had to like think about those things, which is weird.
Max Branstetter 6:42
Oh my god. Yeah. So what’s it what’s the best way to not get sunburned in Antarctica?
Eric Roy 6:46
Sunscreen, sunscreen and clothes? Fortunately, you’re wearing clothes. So like, all you really need to worry about is kind of your face. So yeah, just sunscreen. Like, check with your friends. It’s all good. Yeah.
Max Branstetter 6:57
And what was your favorite part overall about Antarctica
Eric Roy 6:59
had nothing to do with the science. So somehow, my PhD advisor got the keys to like all of the historical huts that like Scott and Shackleton, and those guys didn’t we just did a snowmobile Tour, where we got into the huts into the historic huts. And then we ended the day going to a penguin rookery. So it was, I mean, kind of one of these things like there’s no amount of money you can buy that experience on. And my PhD advisor, just somehow, like, came up with it. And he’s like, Hey, let’s go do this. And I’m like, seriously, like, let’s totally do that. So we took a day off and bang that out. It was pretty special.
Max Branstetter 7:39
That sounds awesome. We’re worth the flight. Or actually, did you fly or do you take a boat there? Yeah. So
Eric Roy 7:45
we flew. So I flew out of Christchurch. And basically the way that it works is so I believe it’s like the New Zealand Air Force. So you fly from or I flew from Christchurch, New Zealand to McMurdo Station. And basically, the way that it works is you take off in this C 130, which is a kind of old school military, like it’s called the HERC and you have enough fuel to either land or turn around at the halfway point. And so basically, at the midway point, the pilot has to say, Okay, are we going to land are we going back to Christchurch, and it took us four attempts to actually make it to Antarctica. So in New Zealand in the summer, it’s like 80 degrees, and you’re wearing the Antarctica extreme cold weather gear, right? So you’re just bundled up in like the warmest clothes on Earth, walking on an 80 degree runway. And just You’re, you’re like praying for takeoff, so you can at least get out of the heat. And then we had to land four times and then just wearing the sweat drenched clothes, just like give it another whirl the next day. So four days in a row. You don’t get your bags back, you know, it’s not delta. It’s like your bags remain in cargo. But yeah, you land on your land. Oh, nice runway. Like that’s, yeah, there’s no pavement. Yeah, it was pretty nice. But you know, you’re you’re dealing with professionals at that point. Fourth time’s
Max Branstetter 9:05
the charm. That is, I mean, flying already is flying can be a you know, a stressful thing for so many people are a nerve wracking thing for so many people just like standard commercial flights. How do you get to yourself? How do you get yourself to stay calm when it’s like a multiple attempts and you know, you’re taking off and landing on ice.
Eric Roy 9:23
I mean, there’s, you know, like, if you go in the ocean, there’s really nothing that’s like there’s the outcome is pretty clear, right? So you just kind of just kind of do it. And you know, it was a little bit of a hairy landing because the wind can change very rapidly. But again, these, this is what these pilots do, right? It’s like, oh, yeah, we are our specialty is taking off and landing planes in Antarctica. So it’s kind of like, Alright, cool. And it was the same thing because when I was down doing fieldwork on ice, we actually had daily helicopter trips out to our field location. And these are all like former spy So forces folks and oil rig operators because they’re flying helicopters in conditions that like your helicopter tour person would not fly and right, but they gotta get you in and they gotta get you out. So, you know, you’re dealing with these elite people, which is a good thing when you’re in the air, right? Like, because there’s very little margin for error there.
Max Branstetter 10:24
So let’s get from the cool, cool temperatures of Maine and Antarctica to the cool, cool story of hydroviv. So awesome. I mean, we’ve talked about that you have a great background and in science and chemistry and always had an interest in, you know, solving problems. If there’s some big hairy problems that you’re tackling with this one, how did this idea for, you know, a really, really cool new optimize water filter first come to you?
Eric Roy 10:54
Well, the thing that’s strange about it is this was never really supposed to be a company. This was a side project. So speaking, you know, at the time, when hydrogen kind of came about, I had a full time job, I was working for a tech company, I was running product development for a tech company that was building devices for firefighters, and first first responders and military people that like detect explosives and kind of some other nasty stuff, right, so another big problem. So hydroviv, was this side project that really kind of got legs with the Flint, like lead stuff that took place in 2015, right. And just as in case, some of your audience isn’t aware of it, basically, the city goofed their water treatment plant. And as a result, there was a ton of lead released into the water citywide and Flint, like levels that are really, really, really high. And what I recognize is, like most of the water filters that are commercially available, if you look at like the concentration of lead that they’re rated to handle, and you look at the concentrations of lead that were literally being measured in Flint, you’re like, Flint is way higher than those levels. So how do you solve for that? Right? So that was kind of, you know, the engineering jump jumping off point that led to kind of the design to be like, Okay, well, let’s make a water filter that’s outside the bounds of, you know, the engineering spec of the stuff that you can buy at Home Depot. And that was really the jumping off point. Now, this wasn’t something we sold when I say we, I mean me. So basically, what ended up happening was I was reaching out to daycares and stuff like that, and Flint saying, hey, if I build you this high capacity lead filter, and ship it to you for free? Would you hook it up? And if they said yes, like I would buy the parts, build it and kind of go with it. Yeah, it was not really a company, it was more of a charitable thing. And then, fast forward a couple months, I ran out of money, because you know, when you’re not selling something, you run out of money real quick. And I was really walking around, I was living in Washington, DC at the time and walking around, and, you know, selling these things door to door and kind of was like the toms shoe model of like, Oh, if you buy a water filter, you get to donate one to Flint. And what I learned very quickly is no one who lives in Washington DC is actually from Washington DC, right? And are a good number or not. And they’re like, Oh, that’s really cool. So you’re, you’re going to make a Washington DC specific water filter. That was kind of like, indeed, and they’re like, Okay, well, could you make one? You know, I have my family’s in Chicago, could you make one that’s like, specific for Chicago’s water? And I’m like, Yeah, I mean, I suppose I could do that. And after I heard that enough times, it’s like, oh, like, Duh, like, let’s do that. That seems like a really good idea. So that’s really that’s literally the kind of linear progression that led to Hydrasleeve.
Max Branstetter 13:54
How do you optimize for different cities, or I guess, different waters like that.
Eric Roy 13:59
The way to think about this is there’s different types of what’s called filtration media. And they all do different jobs, right, you can think of them as different ingredients, you know, flour, makes kind of a bread structure, sugar makes stuff sweet. The same kind of concept applies to water filters, there’s certain types of ingredients that remove things like lead. There’s other types of ingredients that remove chlorine, chloramine, chromium six, and basically, by mixing those different ingredients in the right ratio, you can create water filters that are actually matched to your customers water. And you know, that’s different than what other water filter companies do. Because what other water filter companies do is they just kind of say, yeah, we’ll kind of take a general approach here and mix something that works okay for a lot of places, or works not super well for everywhere. And then they sell that to everyone in the big box stores. So I saw that as an opportunity to kind of sell these things on the internet where you can actually you know where your customers Whereas right because you know, we’re shipping it so you could build the water filter according to their water quality.
Max Branstetter 15:05
Oh, wow, that I’m learning a lot about chemistry and ratios and all sorts of different things. But I love it that there’s a really powerful mission and kind of purpose behind why you started this in the first place. Obviously, anyone who’s familiar with the Flint water crisis, like terrible, terrible times, it was horrible. And unfortunately, you know, it’s like we’re seeing it and still happen. And you know, different places are just awful problems. And it’s really cool that you created something that’s a solution for that. And then somebody gave you like, the real feedback of like, Hey, can you do this for us somewhere else?
Eric Roy 15:39
I personally installed our first 500 water filters in Washington. So basically, it was this idea. It was, like, I look at what I charged for that at the time. And I’m just like, this is complete. This was so not worth my time, from a financial standpoint, but the ability to spend a half hour in the kitchen with 500 customers, and end up being super valuable because like, if you’re under someone’s sink, they’re in the kitchen watching you right? Like they’re making sure you’re not a writer. Right? So but just, I might
Max Branstetter 16:13
pull out a lawn chair and a pina colada and watch.
Eric Roy 16:16
There was alcohol consumed by customers for sure. During the day, I’m just kind of like, it’s 11 in the morning, but you know, it’s you, do you?
Max Branstetter 16:25
What are some of the most valuable things you learn from those? It’s almost like you did ethnography is there, like, detailed interviews with the guests? I mean, with the guests. So yeah, you can tell the podcast with the customers and in those first installations.
Eric Roy 16:38
Yeah, for sure. And this is where understanding what’s interesting to you, is not necessarily what’s interesting to your customers, right? So I’m a chemist, so I thought, like the tech and the chemistry and all this other stuff, would excite people as much as it did me. I was wrong. You could just watch their eyes glaze over in real time, right? So like, we talked about immediate feedback, right? But then that’s when you learn about like, the benefit that you provide them. And what you’ve learned by that isn’t, what you’re selling is like the technology, what you’re selling them is the relief that they feel when they no longer have to worry about the problem. The other thing I learned about that is this actually, once you understand that, it actually places a great deal of responsibility on the company. Because if you don’t deliver on what they want, especially in a technical field, like chemistry, they may not know, but they may still feel that relief. So it actually like also, I would say elevated the responsibility that I felt to deliver a high quality and high performing product. Because, you know, the reality of the situation is like when someone spends a couple 100 bucks on a water filter, they’re probably not going to spend a couple $1,000 to test its efficacy. So that’s something where it’s like, okay, we’re actually talking about the real, we’re talking about the water that goes in someone’s mouth, and you’re really making a performance promise to them. So that was something that really, that stuck that left again, for sure.
Max Branstetter 18:06
How does it work that I mean, this whole interview could just be How does it work? Because I certain non chemist, interviewing a definite chemist, right? And so how does it work like that? I mean, it’s super simple example. So let’s just say like, you know, you’re, you’re installing a hydro vive in Chicago, and LA, and in Austin, Texas, how does it work? That your product like optimizes the ratio
Eric Roy 18:31
100%. So here’s the deal. So we do this, like we actually put human beings to work on this process. So let’s say you’re living in Austin, Texas, for example, you place an order on our website, what literally happens is we have a an analyst that looks at the shipping address knows that you’re in Austin, and starts researching Austin’s water quality. So we have databases that we own, we have databases that are publicly available, like there’s research by a human being that goes into this process. And that’s really, really important. Because, you know, you can see historical trends, you can see all this stuff, if you know what you’re looking for, then once we understand those problems that exist in the customers water, then we can start to formulate, we have some proprietary stuff that lives behind the scenes that helps us do that. Recipe making that best matches the customers water. And we can do that at scale. So we can keep our costs low. And we can sell direct to a customer at a at a price that’s not completely bonkers, right? So that’s really how it works. It’s a human being that does the initial research. And then we have you know, we have some logic and decision framework that does the actual formulation.
Max Branstetter 19:46
So there’s human beings that are helping out with with a lot of this process but it’s not just you whereas at the start where it was like all just you and you’re like, I mean I’m sure you’re still hands on but like it’s not like you’re going and doing all these installations around. You know us Oh no, we’ve
Eric Roy 20:00
we’ve grown since then no 100 reviews yet. So let’s keep in mind in Washington DC, this was in a studio apartment. So the manufacturing floor was my kitchen table, the warehouse was under the kitchen table. And tech support was the laptop that was also on the kitchen table. Right? Like that’s it. That was the entirety of the other thing I didn’t I mean, technically on paper started, I started 100, even 2015. I didn’t hire our first employee until 2018. Like this was very, very much a side project for a while. But you know, once we kind of hit that we start to get some traction, and we grew very quickly. So yeah, there are, there are human beings that wake up every single day at Hydra Vive, looking to do nothing more than just analyze the water quality of new orders that are coming in, they wake up every day, and that’s what they get excited to do. Yeah.
Max Branstetter 20:47
How did you go about, you know, transitioning from the kind of like, Oh, I like I need to do everything myself to like, alright, we’re much better as a company, if other people are helping out here.
Eric Roy 20:57
It’s really hard. So the thing I tell entrepreneurs is, if you’re bootstrapping, the hardest thing to do is hire your first employee, there are consequences of hiring the wrong person. And how you train that individual actually determines whether or not it’s a worthwhile hire. So in our case, it was this really funny story where it was actually a customer’s son, who was like, you know, I get an email from a customer saying, hey, my son is looking to get into water filtration, potentially start a company. Maybe you guys should talk and I’m just like, why would I ever talk to a competitor? And you know, without going through the details, basically, it became abundantly clear that I needed to hire this individuals name’s Matt. He’s still at the company.
Max Branstetter 21:42
Oh, they’re gonna say Max. I was like, Whoa, nice. No.
Eric Roy 21:46
Matt still at the companies my product manager and you know, he’s he’s been with me, he was employee number one, Matt reported on day one of his job to my studio apartment and work on my kitchen table. Yep. Oh, my God. Yep. And then we had an intern
Max Branstetter 22:00
as well that that started I got chills. I love this. The stories like that of just like, teaming up in an apartment and just make it let’s make a business. Why not?
Eric Roy 22:08
Let’s let’s take on billion dollar companies like it’s, it’s a weird, like arrogance, and, you know, motivation. Like, yeah, we’re totally gonna take on these giant multibillion dollar conglomerates, but worked out.
Max Branstetter 22:22
If you look at your site. Now, there’s different filters you have, there’s additional ones, you know, you have your typical water filters, but also you have stuff that impacts you know, like shower water, you have, you have different kinds of parts of, of the household. They’re what it looks like coming up with these, you know, line extensions, or different products.
Eric Roy 22:38
So this, this is not a very exciting answer. I’m actually really excited because he said, so the refrigerator filter is identical to the under sink, water filter, except has different connectors. Because the tube that goes into your refrigerator is different than the tube that goes into the faucet, that’s the only difference. It’s this same housing, same cartridge, same plastic, same literally everything. The shower filter is a different animal. So the shower filter, if you think about what you’re asking a shower filter to do is you’re asking it, you know, you’re not going to drink the water, right, you want to prioritize the level of filtration that goes into treating the water that goes into your mouth is different than the water that’s going into your skin. Because if you think about it, a shower, you need to treat like, depending on how long a shower you’re taking, like gallons of water per usage, right. So there’s always trade offs, because it’s like fast flow rates, super high volumes. So what you focus on are the things that you can address. Fortunately, with showers, the chemicals that you want to remove are actually removable at that flow rate. And at that volume, it’s the things that irritate your skin, it’s the things that make your water stink, right. So fortunately, so it’s it is a different filtration technology. But it’s an addressable filtration technology, because the requirements required to filter shower water actually ended up being doable, which is great. So you can make a product that you’re willing to put your name on. There’s other filtration applications where people make claims that are not exactly backed by performance. And we’ve, I don’t want to say resisted the urge. Because there was really no urge it was just like on principle, we didn’t go down that path and we left money on the table. But you
Max Branstetter 24:18
did put together a pretty good deal. So you know, fast, fast forward, flashboard whatever you prefer. And you’ve been acquired. So you’re part of collagen International. Really, really cool. partnership there. When you look back, what are some of the key inflection points in the life of the business that got you to the point of even being you know, acquire a bull if that’s a word
Eric Roy 24:40
that No, that’s a really, I mean, I like the word whether it’s a word or not. I like it. It’s descriptive and precise. So I like it. It’s acquirable in itself. Yeah, no, I’m into it. If you’re going to make a business that is acquirable to use your term Max, you need to think about the potential trademark that right away. I love it. You need to think about out the potential acquirers as a customer. So you have to even if you’re, if you’re completely loyal to the person that’s using your product, what I would say is you want to measure the things that are important to someone who might acquire you down the road. So in our case, in the direct to consumer world, those are things like what is your customer acquisition cost? What is your customer lifetime value and things like that. But that’s something that didn’t come till much later. Before that, we’re just kind of like, well, step number one is, are we an actual company? Because again, when I hired that first individual full time, that was actually the first time when if you called hydroids, phone number, like someone picked up, right, so that’s a decision in and of itself, because you’re taking on employees, and there’s responsibilities and stuff. I would say the second big thing was for us anyway, applying to go on Shark Tank, that was something that was really important for us. And maybe not in the way that you think, right. I think people think that when you err on Shark Tank, like money, just like it’s like a you walk offstage with a duffel bag full of cash, and then be like, money just comes from the vents for like the next little bit. That’s not Yeah, it’s
Max Branstetter 26:10
like, it’s like robbing a casino. It’s like Ocean’s 11 is perfect, exactly.
Eric Roy 26:14
It just money just everywhere. It’s ridiculous. That’s simply not true. However, what it does is it really forces you to think about how to communicate your deal, like what is your offer? I’m a scientist, right? You know, I spent some time in technical sales. But how do you sell to everyday people? How do you frame your product? For everyone? Like, who is your customer? Well, it’s not like at first, if you would ask me this in 2015, it’s like, oh, it’s totally going to be like, the nerds that are really into this stuff. It’s not that at all a hydrated customers, a customer that just wants an effective solution, with very little friction, like, they’re not the weekend warrior, that gets pleasure out of sitting under their sink for three hours installing something, and so on that get them once a 15 minute solution. So that was huge for our business. The other thing that was a really big choice for us in the E commerce space. For us, personally, the decision not to sell on Amazon, we could have made, we could have inflated our top line numbers. By being on Amazon, it’s obviously a huge marketplace. But the thing to remember about our business is it’s a lifetime. It’s a lifetime value business. So you’re going to buy our filter, and you’re going to buy replacement cartridges because they’re consumable. That’s important, both from a business model perspective, because the recurring revenue is something that obviously helps a business. It’s also really important from a product perspective, because it ensures that your product works. If we were to sell a water filter on Amazon, we don’t know who that customer is. So how do we let them know that they actually need to service their product by changing out the cartridge that ended up being really, really big for us. And that ended up being why companies wanted to acquire us even though we didn’t know it at the time. You know, at the time, we made the decision that wasn’t like, oh, well, we’ll get bought. So we need to do this, it ended up being something that the actual value that we saw on it, which was maintaining that relationship with our customer, ended up being the thing that people really valued from an acquisition case.
Max Branstetter 28:23
If you are looking to acquire a new newsletter for your inbox that you actually enjoy reading, and it’s not actually acquiring it, it’s subscribing to it, consider signing up for podcasting to the max. It is a fun, quirky, corny, weird email from me every Thursday. That includes podcasting tips, and includes entrepreneurship tips, and some of the worst dad jokes you’ve ever heard, you can sign up at Max podcasting.com/newsletter. Now let’s put the term scientists in entrepreneur in a blender and let it go and go and go in and see what happens. Let’s switch gears a little bit to a segment on inspiration and creativity. So this is kind of more you the personal side, kind of how you operate in the business world and beyond. And you can tell from you know, the answers that you’ve given on this interview that you yourself, you’re like this beautiful fusion of both a scientist and an entrepreneur. So like, there’s multiple aspects there. And it’s like, I’m sure there’s it’s very different ways of thinking, but also there’s overlap there. So like, how do you navigate like the your science interests as well as your entrepreneurial interests?
Eric Roy 29:36
There’s more overlap than you may think on the surface. Once you once you understand that science is really just a framework for asking questions and getting answers. So it’s a scientific feels like a podcast interview. Exactly. Right. Yeah. Scientific Method. It’s hypothesis. That was my hypothesis. Exactly. Right. That’s what it is. And if you think about business, that’s exactly what it is. You’re in the past. pursuit of answers that drive your decisions. And when you think about it like that, if you’re a good experimentalist, scientifically, you’re probably going to be a pretty efficient business owner. As long as you really focus on what your goals are. For me, I was always working in applied science where, where we always had a goal of our science, and we didn’t really get sidetracked by like shiny things. And like, you know, academic discovery and stuff, we really were focused on a goal. And with business, it’s the exact same thing. It’s like, the goal, you identify kind of the decisions that you need to make to get to that goal. And then you start asking yourself, what information do I need to make those decisions? And that’s just hypothesis testing. So it’s the same thing. You know, I think it might annoy my employees at the time, you know, on some level, because that’s kind of what I keep going back to as the scientific method. I’m like, do we know this to be true? Or do we believe this to be true? If we believe it to be true? How would we test so we can move from belief to knowledge? And there’s work involved in doing that, right? There’s work and there’s oftentimes like Humble Pie, because maybe the thing you thought is true is not actually true. But like, again, science is the discovery of truth. And, you know, in business, I think that if you’re, if you’re doing an ethical business, that is providing real value to people, and you’re not just playing like hot potato with, like, garbage, right? It’s not like, oh, it’s your problem now, like, if you’re doing real stuff, you’re in the pursuit of truth. So there’s a ton of overlap between science and entrepreneurship. I think more scientists should be entrepreneurs, I’m actually speaking to my alma mater is Board of Trustees about this going on in Boston for that?
Max Branstetter 31:45
Well, I like any sort of pie. So Humble Pie is totally cool. Yeah, that’s a really, really good point. There’s a lot from the scientific method that can translate over. What else from the science world would you say comes in handy if you’re if you’re looking to build a business?
Eric Roy 32:00
That’s really good question. And I don’t want this to sound rude or negative, but like failure. You know, if you think like, if you think about science, you’re usually wrong. Like a lot, like your hypothesis is usually wrong. So you get really, really used to being wrong. My PhD advisor, always used to tell me 90% of what we believe to be true in the emerging literature, will one day be proven to be incorrect. So just get used to like being wrong. And in business, it’s the exact same thing. It’s like, oh, this is going to be a really great idea. An example of that is I thought, hey, why don’t I sell these things at farmer’s markets? That was just such a catastrophically dumb idea. Right? Like, you’re not going to know until you try it, but you’ll find out. So yeah, I mean, that’s, that’s the whole thing. I mean, it’s, it’s getting used to failure, and, and that’s okay. Like, it stings in the moment, but it’s like, okay, just like, take step back, get an ice cream, and okay, what’s the next? What’s the next thing you’re gonna fail on? It’s really mentality thing.
Max Branstetter 33:04
Are you ever able to unplug from one being a scientist and to being an entrepreneur in your free time?
Eric Roy 33:12
No, you know, because if you think about it, like, most of my good ideas that I’ve had, or most ideas, good and bad kind of come when I’m doing things where my mind is wandering, so like exercising, walking dogs, you know, riding bikes, whatever. So like, where your mind goes, when it’s idle? You know, that’s really kind of what motivates you, right? So when if I’m doing anything, like even when I find myself, like watching TV or something, I’m not actually like, my face is pointed at the TV, but I’m not actually consuming what’s going on.
Max Branstetter 33:48
I was just had the image of you, like, face the opposite direction, and just head on the background. Like, that’s an interesting approach. I
Eric Roy 33:55
think, the more representative one is, like, if I’m watching something on Netflix, and like, if you’ve been watching something on Netflix for so long, it like pops up. And it says, like, are you still watching this? I’ve been caught by people that are just like, What is going on? You’re just like, pointing at the sitting there, and you’re not doing anything and it weirds people out.
Max Branstetter 34:17
And all of a sudden, that’s a very complicated question, because you are and you’re not watching it at the same time,
Eric Roy 34:22
ya know, and, and I have no idea where that time has gone what was on the TV and things like that, like, you know, through the same lens, you know, I’m usually if I’m driving in a car, like, it’s usually silent, because I’m able to let my mind wander. And that’s kind of where it goes. I don’t really turn off but I don’t view that as a bad thing. So it’s fun. It’s problem solving, right? I mean, that’s the whole like, to be able to, like operate in a world where you’re discovering things and learning things professionally is quite a privilege. So yeah, I I enjoy it.
Max Branstetter 34:54
Is there one specific time of the day or activity that you’re doing that, you tend to get the most problem solved.
Eric Roy 35:04
Now, and, you know, as soon as you identify it, you’d want to do it more, which means that the organic pneus of it and the spontaneity of it would go away. So like, not only do I not know the answer to that question, I am not in the pursuit of, of the answer to that question.
Max Branstetter 35:21
So, yeah, yeah, that almost has like, a brings up an addictive nature to it. So yeah, that could, it could get pretty tricky. It’s addictive.
Eric Roy 35:27
And it also would denote the switch of science, which is kind of like this discovery process to engineering, which is like, how do I make more of it? Right. And it’s like, I think that the spontaneity deliberate, and spontaneity are kind of two different things. So I, what’s working for me now is working. So I kind of, let’s keep it how it is.
Max Branstetter 35:52
So let’s change how it is and wrap up with some Rapid-Fire Q&A. All right. All right. Let’s get wild. You mentioned that you love doing puzzles as a kid, what was your absolute favorite type of puzzle to do?
Eric Roy 36:04
Ones that were really annoying. So like, you know, when they’re all like, weird colors and stuff where nothing makes sense. Because it was so fresh, it would be so frustrating. But then if you complete it, it was really, really satisfying, right? So it’s like, very, very high effort. But then you get that sense of completion. So I’m not a big fan of like, the easy attainable stuff. So yeah, that’s so yeah,
Max Branstetter 36:28
not the like three piece puzzles. Now get give me give me a puzzle,
Eric Roy 36:31
because is like just blue. Right? Like 500 people. Yeah, blue. And it’s like, yeah, let’s do that.
Max Branstetter 36:38
Oh, yeah. That’s so funny. You brought that up. I interviewed you. This interview is right down your alley. Actually, I interviewed back in episode I want to say was 97 Will Shortz, like the Puzzlemaster for The New York Times, the crossword puzzle guy. And fascinating interview, but I asked him about puzzles as well. And he mentioned that Heinz Ketchup at the time was like doing this special promotion where they were selling puzzles that were completely red, like the color of ketchup. And it was like, just solid color. And like, my first reaction was like, Oh, my God, that would be extremely difficult and not fun. But that sounds right down your alley.
Eric Roy 37:15
Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, like, it’s weird. It’s weird, for sure. But like, it’s really satisfying. If you finish it, if you can get to the point of completion, like you’ve overcome a lot of frustration, which is kind of neat.
Max Branstetter 37:28
What position did you play in baseball,
Eric Roy 37:30
I was a catcher primarily. And I also pitched some I was more of a thrower than a pitcher, I could throw real hard, but, you know, when there was some uncertainty,
Max Branstetter 37:40
feelings, unfortunately, to be played in college, what was the what’s the biggest difference between college and high school baseball,
Eric Roy 37:49
time management. So I went to a very demanding academic college, Colby College up in Waterville, Maine. And academically, you were competing with really, really smart people. And on top of that, you also just kind of have this competitive nature. So just like, how do you get better at the athletic pursuit while pursuing something very, very deep academically? And how do you manage your time in doing that? How do you manage your time and your effort and kind of your energy? That was the big thing? I did not experience that in high school. I know some places do I did not experience that in high school.
Max Branstetter 38:23
What is a Weird Talent you have or like a party trick, something you’re really good at, but it doesn’t really impact what you do for a living?
Eric Roy 38:30
Well, everything impacts everything for a living, right, like so my party, I can balance in a science balance a baseball bat on my nose, like a seal. But to say that there’s zero social value in that I think is a scratch. I think people find that hilarious.
Max Branstetter 38:46
Did you learn that in Antarctica? No, it
Eric Roy 38:49
was it’s between doubleheaders and baseball, you learn how to juggle and just do you have like that one hour between the two games on a Saturday where it’s like, okay, well, I ate my sandwich. juggler, and, you know, whatever. So that was kind of when that took place.
Max Branstetter 39:04
Oh, that’s, that’s awesome. That’s so much histology there, it’s
Eric Roy 39:06
a little bit counter to the time management thing. It’s like, oh, yeah, this time, I’d like to learn how to balance a baseball bat on my nose.
Max Branstetter 39:14
But that happens with rain delays, too. That’s when you see the guys like stacking hats on their head, or like sticking bubble gum and bolts. Oh, please don’t even
Eric Roy 39:20
answer what you do in rain delays, you run the bases, and you slide through the puddles. Right. I mean, yeah. Is there any debate on that? Like, that’s a clear path forward in my mind.
Max Branstetter 39:30
So speaking of clear, so this, I don’t know if you are able to share this or if it’s public information or not. So if not, you can just say screw you, Max. But what is a city in the US with like, really, really good water quality overall?
Eric Roy 39:47
It’s a good question. So there’s two sides of water quality. There’s source water, like where do you actually get the water from? And then there’s, like, what comes out of the tap? So if you’re looking And you’re talking to like in New York City, for example, they talk about the pristineness of their source. But, you know, it’s a very old city with old infrastructure. So you know what comes out of a tap, a lot of times can have lead in it if you live in a house that has old plumbing. So it’s a little bit of a complicated question. The other thing is, there’s still a lot that we’re discovering about certain chemicals. So I don’t want to go on and say, Hey, this is great, because there’s like these emerging contaminants that as we get a more complete picture of what’s going on, we’re learning that maybe what we thought was fine is not the case. So I’m not dodging the question. It’s more of just like, again, like this discovery in science, like we continue to learn the more complete picture.
Max Branstetter 40:45
Oh, totally. Yeah. And I know nothing about water quality. So you could have literally said like, oh, you actually like the moon is really good. What?
Eric Roy 40:53
Maybe it does, like that’d be I wouldn’t buy Mars. Yeah, for sure. Like, if you’re selling water from moonshine, I would start that company.
Max Branstetter 41:04
Will do. Oh, we’ll get on it right away. Well, Eric, thank you so much, Mr. Roy, or Mr. Roy as your grandma would say. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast and sharing all you do I just really really cool story behind Hydroviv and beyond and I’m ready to book tickets to Antarctica so you got me inspired but where is the best place for people to get some of your hydro vive products if they’re interested as well as connect with you online?
Eric Roy 41:31
Yeah, so if you’re interested in water filtration go to Hydroviv.com. We have live chat and if you have any questions our commitment in Live Chat is we’re going to help you get the right product even if it’s not our So work with them that’s their mandate. Like to get in touch with me there’s really two places one is LinkedIn if you just search Eric Roy Hydroviv, I’ll pop up. The other place is probably Instagram I don’t use Twitter a ton so my Instagram handle is @EricRoyPhD
Max Branstetter 41:57
Perfect and that’s Hydroviv hydro as it sounds and then viv is V.I.V. So there’s this the spelling bee but last thing here Final Thoughts stages years it could be a quote, scientists, words to live by whatever you want just kind of words to live by, send us over here. The big
Eric Roy 42:12
thing is just if you’re working on a problem, just don’t stop like you’re going to encounter stuff just like level set on that and just persevere. just plow through it. You are guaranteed to fail if you do not do that.
Max Branstetter 42:28
From snow to snow-plowing through problems. Thank you so much, Eric, for sharing your incredible Hydroviv story and beyond. And thank you, Wild Listeners, for tuning in to another episode. If you want to hear more Wild stories like this one, make sure to follow the Wild Business Growth Podcast on your favorite app and tell a friend about the podcast and try out Hydroviv with them Hydroviv it up. You can also find us on Goodpods where there are good good podcasts and podcast recommendations and for any help with podcast production, you can learn more at MaxPodcasting.com and sign up for the Podcasting to the Max newsletter. That’s at MaxPodcasting.com/Newsletter. Until next time, let your business Run Wild…Bring on the Bongos!!
