Full Transcript – Athena Kasvikis – Wild Business Growth Podcast #231

This is the full transcript for Episode #231 of the Wild Business Growth Podcast featuring Athena Kasvikis – Bra Architect, Founder of Behave Bras. You can listen to the interview and learn more here. Please note: this transcript is not 100% accurate.

Athena Kasvikis 0:00
You take more than five minutes to really lay that out, it is never going to make sense. Never.

Max Branstetter 0:21
Yoooo! Welcome back to the Wild Business Growth Podcast. This is your place to hear from a new entrepreneur every single Wednesday morning who’s turning Wild ideas into Wild growth. I’m your host, Max Branstetter, Founder and Podcast Producer at MaxPodcasting. And you can email me at to save time with your high-quality podcast. This is episode 231. And today’s guest is Athena Kasvikis. She is the Founder and CEO of Behave as in Behave Bras, an innovative line of wire-free lingerie, sorry, Athena, that is made for the biggest busts. It’s actually kind of tough to say. In this episode, we talk how Behave came to Be (have) as well as Athena’s prior life in brand management, which I know quite a bit about, and how that helped shape her entrepreneurship journey. And Athena’s fascinating, weird/not-so-secret talent, that you may or may not be able to guess as you start to learn about her business. It is Athena. Enjoyyyyyy the shooooooow!

Aaaaaalrightyyyyy we are here with Athena Kasviki, which has you know, been several weeks of pronunciation practice just to get to this point. So you know, round of applause but Athena, the amazing Founder and CEO of Behave, you know, Behave Bras, and it is just a really, really innovative company. Thanks for coming on how you doing today?

Athena Kasvikis 2:10
I am awesome. Thanks for having me.

Max Branstetter 2:12
Of course, of course. They’re really excited to get to the Behave or Oh, Behave story if you’re an Austin Powers fan. But before that, there’s some a couple of things about your background that we have in common that I think is definitely want to dive into just for the nostalgia. One is you interned in Stamford, or StamVegas as my friend Danny shoutout The Big D says, You did that for summer. And I actually lived in Stamford for three and a half years right out of college. So lots of time in that town. How was your experience in in that beautiful town in southwest Connecticut?

Athena Kasvikis 2:48
Traffic. That was they used to so I didn’t realize how bad traffic was honestly, until I lived there. And then on Fridays, which by the way, is awesome. But on Fridays, it would be half-day Fridays. And I was like, This is great half day Fridays are awesome. And they’re like, no, if you don’t leave by like one, you’re gonna sit in the parking lot that is 95 for three hours to go three exits. And I was like, stop it. So I did. I actually stayed one time to have like some happy hour beverages, and did get stuck going to Norwalk for about an hour and a half. And for anybody’s perspective. Norwalk is like 15 minutes. So yeah,

Max Branstetter 3:32
it’s right next door. Traffic. Oh, man. Yeah, that brings back. Not so great memories. Yeah, I think overall. I mean, I’m somebody who moved from the Midwest, like I grew up in Cleveland, Ohio, I went to school in Indiana. So like, this was my first experience living on the East Coast. And I think the first time I experienced just the driving on 95 was like, Whoa, so there’s like the traffic and then there’s like the, you know, what is it speed limits, like 55 or 65. But people go like 95 or 95. And then then you get the motorcycle drivers that are like, even crazier. So the weavers, the weavers? Yeah, yeah, you got to keep your head on a swivel. But definitely lots of traffic there. Half day Fridays are a beautiful thing in the summer. But yeah, there’s just always traffic there. And you some you’re someone who you live in Boston as well, in the one time I’ve been to Boston, we drove from Stanford, up to Boston and back and got the experience of that traffic to Boston and back. So you have like a double dose of traffic everywhere.

Athena Kasvikis 4:32
It’s great. I love it. There’s nothing better than wasting your life sitting in a car. So what I used to commute into Boston for years, I’m sure we’ll go through like the bio stuff, but I got really smart about it where I would say Okay, getting up at five to get out of the house by seven to not even get into Boston until like nine. It makes no sense. So I’d go in really late but I’d schedule meetings in the morning. things so I can at least be driving and be on a conference call. So the complete waste of my life. So yeah, I got really smart about scheduling meetings in the mornings when I’d be driving so that it wouldn’t just be the disaster that is Boston traffic.

Max Branstetter 5:15
Yeah, that’s disastrous all around. Yeah, that’s That’s clever though, it definitely helps pass the time and helps you feel more productive and be more productive when you aren’t taking those calls at that time, is speaking of productivity. The other thing we have in common is brand management. So you spent several years at P&G and brand management positions. I was working for a competitor, so Sun Products and it got acquired by Henkel. So we were kind of competitors in the laundry space. Like I look back fondly in that time of my life, like, you know, there were things I liked and things they didn’t like, but I think brand management is like really good training for like running a business and like there’s so many different parts of it that you can take to so many different aspects of your life, whatever you want to do after what what would you say is the main thing about entrepreneurship that you learn from, you know, those ABM and beyond roles at P&G?

Athena Kasvikis 6:03
Yeah, I think it was a couple things, what you said is true. What I find funny about brand management is that most people don’t actually know what it is. They’re like, Oh, it’s marketing. And you’re like,

Max Branstetter 6:13
I still don’t know what it is, girl.

Athena Kasvikis 6:16
I’ve percent marketing, if it was just marketing, I would have stayed forever. But the other 95% is whole business management, cross functional teams, organizational management, especially at Procter, as you know, where that is the line directly to the CEO. And so, you know, you’re not just making ads, you’re essentially running all of the teams that go into the brand, one of the biggest takeaways, and I see it now in my career, and I’ve seen it since I left. I was so young when I was at Procter. I mean, I was right out of business school directly into Procter and I went to business school directly from college. So like, it’s not like I had worked for these big organizations. And I had that kind of background. My biggest thing I learned there that I still hold to this day is I don’t care how many people are on a brand or on a team or working with you, at Procter at least for who I worked with and worked for. There were no excuses, you got something done. That was kind of the Procter & Gamble way. It was like, if you are the brand leader, no one cares if it’s your ops team that missed a production run or the lines late or something went down. At the end of the day, you own the profit and loss for that brand. And so you figure it out. That’s it. Thanks for playing. No one cares whose fault it is. Because at the end of the day, when you’re doing your yearly numbers and your yearly review, that’s what showing up and you own that. So it was something that I learned really, really quickly that I don’t think a lot of people in other areas learned in the same way I did. And it totally colors how I operate. And it totally colors how I’m an entrepreneur as well. Like, it has made my mindset forever since Proctor, like don’t care how we get there. But we get there. There are no no’s in business. I learned that a proctor to like saying, Hey, can you do this? And someone being like, no, that’s not an answer that works because the things still need to get done. And so it also helped me in my management style after proctor where I was just I used to tell my teams and I’m like, just because you say it can’t be done doesn’t mean it doesn’t need to be done. So like you never told me no. What’s cool is when you’re like, hey, I don’t know if I can do that. But here’s four things we can do to accomplish whatever needs to be done. That’s how I used to train my people to just because it’s the god’s honest truth, right? Like, just because you’re like, No, I can’t do that. I don’t have time, wherever it doesn’t matter still needs to get done. So if you don’t do it, and I do it, then why do I need to employ you? It sounds really harsh. But it’s a really interesting mindset that I had when I left to when I worked for people, which is like, understanding that the business problem doesn’t leave. It’s whether I can do something or not does it solve a problem, then I need to figure out what Well, that’s what i Those are my biggest learnings honestly, everything else, you know Proctor’s like going to get your second MBA that places right.

Max Branstetter 9:17
Yeah, it’s definitely got I mean, it’s obviously one of the most famous in, you know, well known and like biggest companies of all time, but definitely has reputation in terms of like, you know, what it’s like working there and like the different projects you work on and kind of responsibility but brand management Totally agree. Like there’s so many lessons you can learn from it and that brand ownership that like, you know, just getting stuff done is really, really important. Skipping, skipping, skipping how to talk, skipping a couple steps here, but you were at Procter with one of the biggest companies in the world. And fast forward, you know, with behave you started your own business. What was the biggest like striking difference from working with, you know, for people at such a big company to like working for yourself and it’s like just you at the start

Athena Kasvikis 10:00
exactly what you said, resources. I mean, it’s, I do talks for Procter, which is really crazy and cathartic. By the way, just if you ever want to know, go and do a talk for the company you worked with, like early in your career, and tell them all the things that they do wrong. And then hear them love you for it. Like, it’s great. It’s so cathartic to be like, you all move too slowly. That’s usually what part of my talks are with proctor where I’m just like, you guys gotta go faster, and does it go faster. But I was doing a talk. And you know, I had a guy in the audience and he was like, but how? How do you become an entrepreneur? And I was like, You’re gonna hate this answer. Let me tell you how it’s a huge secret that no one knows. You just effing do it.

Max Branstetter 10:51
I knew that was coming.

Athena Kasvikis 10:52
You wake up and you you say I am going to go and do this. You have no idea how, right? There’s no guidebook to be like, Okay, first step, create an LLC, like, none of that exists. You can look stuff up on Google. But what you do is you just say I’m going to do it. And for someone like me, what that means is what I liked about that, what was exciting about that coming from a Procter is I had to figure it out. So there aren’t 46 trainings and 36 teams of people to call and whatever. So that was exciting. It’s also really scary, right? Because you can screw so much up, right? Sales tax is a great example of something that no one from Procter, no one in the world understands how to handle on your own as a business owner until you figure it out. And it doesn’t work. Like you can call everybody you want. But at the end of the day, like you have to just have that basic sense of business to be like, Okay, I probably should look into whether my products require sales tax, and if at any Nexus is in any states, and maybe I should call everybody you know, and figure out what they’ve done. That was the biggest difference is lack of resources. And then the other biggest difference is, you know, I have a huge network from Procter and the other companies I’ve worked for, but the end of the day, like entrepreneurship is its own beast, it’s, a lot of the people you’re gonna call that come from corporate America have never been this deep in the weeds. And they’ve never had to write because you have teams and collaborations. And so there’s that side of it, where you’re just like, Well, today, I’ve got to figure out stuff, I have no idea what I’m doing, right? And you just commit to that. And you say, Okay, I’m just gonna go do that. So that’s how you start a company, you say, I’m gonna go do that. And then every single day, you literally just figure it out how to take one baby step, not huge steps, but like, do something that moves the company forward today in some way, shape, or form, and you will eventually get there. Not a great answer for people who think it’s like, you know, you’re gonna go and sit in your garage and create Facebook. But I mean, that’s how it works.

Max Branstetter 12:58
So let’s start a company, let’s get to behave. So behave bras, just amazing company with such awesome momentum. First of all, for anybody who’s not familiar, what’s the difference between a quote unquote traditional bra and a Behave Bra?

Athena Kasvikis 13:12
And there’s a lot of differences. So we’ll start with the consumer, because that’s our, our background. So consumer wise, it’s easy, and it’s hard because I am the consumer. So I grew up very athletic. I am Greek and Italian. My gene pool, however, got in the way. So I woke up one day with large breasts, naturally, large breasts, a lot of times for women that you know, the training, so to speak, on how to grow up as a female comes from your mom. So your mom helps you with your period and how to wear makeup and all that stuff. Well, I just happened to get the one of three sisters in our family that didn’t have big boobs. And so my mom was just like, I don’t know how to help you throw on. So I grew up wearing three sports bras in my teens and on to try to play sports comfortably. What people don’t understand about breasts is you’re talking about for someone like me five, six pounds of semi movable mass on the front, only the front of your body. And what that does physiology wise is disgusting, right kills your back, your neck, your shoulders, it’s very uncomfortable. Try running with that. It’s just very painful. I’m a problem solver. And so once I finally got into the place where I got into corporate America, and actually had to make sure I did not look like a train wreck where everyone was staring at my chest, because that’s the last thing you need as a female when you’re 24. I figured out how to solve the problem with European brands fast forward for behave, you know, because I’m the consumer. I felt like I knew exactly what the solution was right? I was like, this is easy. I know exactly what I need to do here. If someone just made these little pieces of fabric that would like sit in the curb of each breast, then your boobs wouldn’t try to jump ship. abroad you bent over you wouldn’t lose one of them. Or you wouldn’t get this Huge smashing and sweating and all this stuff. I felt like I was the expert from a consumer perspective. And I still feel that way. The challenges is laundry is the single hardest category in the world to make. It is not a t shirt, you don’t just go like so some seams together. Laundry, I would equate it to building a skyscraper. It’s wildly technical and engineering heavy. It’s all about physics and forces and materials. It is wild. So that’s the part I didn’t understand. That’s the part that that’s the part where I thank god, right. Do you ever have you heard that from other founders? Like, thank god, I didn’t know how hard this would be?

Max Branstetter 15:39
Because I Yeah, definitely.

Athena Kasvikis 15:41
That’s the big thing is you come in and you’re like, I have a general sense of business. I kind of know how to do things. I know how to brand. I know the consumer, I’m gonna crush life. What I had no idea about was how to physically make a bra and what that would actually take. I was just naive and had a big enough ego where it was like, oh, figure it out.

Max Branstetter 16:03
There’s there is like the, what do they say? naivety naivete, whatever the, you know, production ation, got, you know what I’m saying? Whatever it is, there is some beauty in that I think back to when I launched my podcast production business, which like, if you like, zoom out podcast production business, okay, like you launch an edit podcast, like it’s not very complicated in theory. But like, even, you know, the business I’m in like, if I would have known at the start, just like, how much like detail and how many hours and like how many questions and answers and things you’re going to figure out. Especially at like the start, you know, this first couple of years, I think I still would have done it. But also like, it would have been very intimidating, just knowing that, like, you’re about to smash your head into the wall over and over again, like, so that’s, that’s so true.

Athena Kasvikis 16:50
Are you glad that you didn’t? No,

Max Branstetter 16:52
definitely. Yeah, exactly. And I’m someone who interviews entrepreneurs like you for a living. So like, I should have known but but anyway,

Athena Kasvikis 17:01
the whole point I’m trying to make, it’s a good learning for everybody out there. If this goes back to how do you how do you become an entrepreneur? How do you start a business, I tell people all the time, I have a business background, I got my MBA, I am dangerous, with financials and that kind of stuff. If you take more than five minutes, to do the cost benefit analysis, for someone like me in your 30s, starting a business spending your nest egg, your retirement and all of your dollars selling your car, and your clothes and moving in with your mom, you take more than five minutes to really lay that out. It is never going to make sense. Never. You look at the percentage of companies that turn into unicorns, right? And you’re like, why would I ever do that? That makes no sense. So what I tell people is stop thinking. Think about it for no more than five minutes. Obviously be smart, right? And say, is this something I’m passionate about? Do I know enough to get started and stay excited? Like you were talking about with your podcast business? And then at the end of the day, am I willing to just work my butt off and figure it out? If you can commit to that. And you don’t have 12 kids that need your income? Do it. But don’t spend more than five minutes on a cost benefit analysis and really think through Was it worth it? Because the end of the day once you make the decision, you need to make it worth it. And that’s kind of how I think about it every day is Was it worth it? When I first started, it was probably ridiculously stupid what I did. But every day I recommit to making that payout. Where I’m just like, Well, we’re here. Let’s do it. Dude, I mean,

Max Branstetter 18:39
yeah, that’s awesome. The working your butt off and figuring it out. Like, that’s really what the crux is like when it comes down to as an entrepreneur. So from butts to boobs, so the I’ve terrible. I’ve terrible segues overall, but especially this one, sorry, but with behave. So you, you know, you had personally experienced this pain point, this problem, you know, for years. So it’s you know, you’re very familiar with it. What went into the actual like solving the problem and figuring out the you know, what material to use and what this looks like and everything there.

Athena Kasvikis 19:12
So it’s a it’s a two-step process. Again, laundry is disgusting. So I always tell the new laundry, I mentor companies, I’ve gotten a reputation for being someone who will be helpful. And I think it comes out of the fact that there were so many people that just weren’t helpful for me. It’s a very insular space laundry and so what you’ll find is I call it the Lingerie Magia. There’s a lot of people that that work in lingerie that have been there for 20, 30, 40 years. It’s not what it’s so highly technical. You don’t really leave and go make t shirt. Right you stay forever. And it’s it’s somewhat considered fashion. So when I was first starting out, I had a lot of people be like, Oh, aren’t you cute? You want to make a bra. Oh man, so cute. You have No background. Woody like Gino treating me like I’m a stupid cheerleader on the sideline that wants to become the football head coach. And I was like, you guys don’t understand, like, I am doing this with or without you. So get on board and help or don’t. But please stop wasting my time. And I was really nice about it. But what I found was a bunch of laundry expert, I already knew coming into it, that actual technology I wanted to develop, which we call stays. So those are patented. I’ve patented those in the US we’re moving through patent in the EU. So I have that utility patent going through, we’ll get that this year. The point is I already kind of knew the technology, I wanted it in there. And I developed that actually really quickly that comes from my consumer understanding and being the consumer and having a mom who could so and just helped me figure that out. I also worked with a seamstress in Rhode Island, just kind of spitballing someone who could literally use a needle and thread from there, though that doesn’t mean you have a prototype, that just means that you kind of have an idea of what the technology is making the actual bra is the highly technical part. That’s wild. That’s where I needed a lot help. So for behave. The other big thing, just so everybody understands is we make bras which are meant to support really heavy breasts. That is, again, like building a skyscraper versus building like a ranch. Right? The whole point of a bra is to keep bras which are really heavy from being destroyed by gravity. And the heavier you go, the harder that is, I decided because you know, why not add misery that we would do that only for the largest breasts, so double D through icap, which is like basically the hardest thing you could do. And I was like, I want it Why are free. I am tired of wearing underwear. It makes me homicidal after like two hours. So I was like, I’m going to do it while you’re free. And again, this is where the naivety and the ego comes in. We’re just like, I got this figured out. So you know, talk to anybody in the field. And we’re doing literally the hardest thing in the hardest market for the neediest consumer there is. So it’s again, had I known all this, I would have been scared out of my socks, and I wouldn’t have done it. I didn’t know all this. I figured I could figure it out. And we did. But by no means do. I want anybody to think that you just wake up with an idea and you go make it tomorrow. I sat outside. This is true of a gentleman’s office for a week with coffee. Up in Waltham, somewhere up north of Boston, I had met, I had met this guy over the phone, he was affiliated with MassChallenge, like 10 years earlier, MassChallenge is an accelerator program that I got into in Boston. And somebody gave me this guy’s name. And they said, Hey, this guy used to own a bra company. And I said, Great, he might know people that I need to know. And so this guy was too busy for me. I was like, Cool. I’m in Waltham outside your office with coffee for a week, and was just like, whatever you get 15 minutes, I’m here. So I finally meet this guy. Super nice. He finally is like, Yeah, dude, just come up. I’m so. And I sat there and grilled him for like, as long as I think was like 40 minutes on who he remembered from his days in laundry, so it could try to break into that mafia, and find people, I came out with one name of a designer in Connecticut. I looked her up on the interweb. I found her send her a pleading note. I asked her and what I learned is that I just asked everybody I met who they knew, every conversation, I was like, Who do you know, I need this, this, this this? Who do you know? So she gave me the name of this other guy who would be great for sourcing fabric? Manufacturing. He’d been doing it for almost 40 years. He knew the Asian market for that stuff. I know no one. Great. So that’s kind of how I got in. And then obviously, like, I called him, and then I interviewed him and I found other people. And so what ends up happening is you basically all I needed was like that thread to pull, and I couldn’t get that thread. And as soon as I got it, I was like a dog with a bone. I harassed people. I was like, and he was so mean, the first time the first time I talked to that man, he’s now my COO. Oh, by the way, he’s my Chief Operating Officer. First time I talked to him, he like told me off. He’s a mean person. He’s actually a wonderful human being. It was more of like, he was very, very skeptical that someone without a background could do what I wanted to do, and actually had a patented technology or something that was patentable in laundry everybody believes that whatever has been done is done. There like there’s no innovation. It’s done.

Max Branstetter 24:46
And so funny you keep saying, Lingerie Mafia because this the more people I talk to, and and learn from there’s more and more different mafias like a couple years ago for Thanksgiving like I always do like a special Thanksgiving like family or family pets. This episode, I and my uncle Randy for many years was a KFC franchisee he always talks about The Chicken Mafia, so it’s like Chicken Mafia, Lingerie Mafia, but

Athena Kasvikis 25:11
I think your right. Wouldn’t you say CPG has a little mafia, too?

Max Branstetter 25:16
Oh, definitely. Well, then, and even. So the company I was worked for at the time was Sun products. And, you know, our CEO, many of the top executives, many brand directors and everything they’re like, had spent many years at P&G before that. So like, there’s everybody you know, it’s P&G, and brand management, the network of brand management is very closely intertwined, no matter where you go.

Athena Kasvikis 25:37
And it’s funny because you don’t think so because it’s so big, until you leave. So I get notes from people I’ve worked with 15 years ago, being like, what’s up? Who do you know, I have run back into more people than I thought was possible. Like I said, I’m back doing talks with Procter and Gamble, I walked into one couple months ago, and my original, like, he wasn’t it, but he was like, my original tech guy on my brand was there who’s now a vice president. And I was like, you’re making me feel old, like, Vice President like you. It’s a small world, I would argue that laundry is actually even smaller than CPG. And everybody does know each other, and everybody does talk. Because once you’re in it, you’d kind of don’t leave and there’s a certain brands you’re gonna work for, you’re gonna work for Victoria’s Secret, or Wacoal, Natori, or whatever, I would argue you do need in my field, you do need to find your people. I found my people after Jonathan, you know, kind of gave me the business a bit on our first phone call. I remember getting really frustrated. And because I was like, Hi, how are you? Can I pay you to help me? You know, I was charming. And he kind of wasn’t having it. And I remember at the end of it, I was just like, listen, okay, I’m tired. Here’s the deal. Like, I’m gonna do this with or without you. What I’m asking is if you would like to help me, but just because I don’t have a background. And just because you don’t think that something I’m doing can be patented, doesn’t mean that that’s true. I’m telling you. It’s true. I’ll show you whatever you need to do. Short of giving you my social security number, right? Are you interested in actually working for me? What was cool is that he was just like, whoa, relax. Next day calls me up. And he was like, I actually don’t want to work for you. And I was like, Cool. Who do you know, that will? Like who do you know that I can, you know, pay? And he was just like, No, I want I want to work with you. I want to be a partner in this. Yeah, that was like, I had to run the gauntlet a little bit. But that’s the that’s the best move I’ve made. Because now when I say hey, we need to go figure out manufacturing and you know, make this thing that I’ve made real like, what is the stitch? What is the fabric? He knows those people we went over to Hong Kong, China, that whole area and 2019 met with our manufacturer in person spent a week. You know, hobnobbing as a female in China, that’s really hard by the way to do. They don’t take you seriously. And he was invaluable in that process. Now I have the greatest relationship ever with my manufacturer, the owner and I are actually buddies. I didn’t know that that’s like not a thing. We’re but I know, it’s family. It’s life. It’s good everything. That’s why when you break in, like make the most of that opportunity, because look how it worked out for me. Right? Like, I may not know how to make a bra. Well, now I do. I didn’t know how to make a bra. But I was forceful enough. I was passionate enough. I just was like you like you said earlier, I was willing to run through a brick wall as many times as it took to get to where I want it to go. And that is the only difference. I’m not smarter than anybody. I’m just tenacious. So I was tenacious with him, I got him and it like changed our whole trajectory. We had we launched less than a year later.

Max Branstetter 28:54
And I think that your, like policy have probably became your favorites, your favorite question ever of asking people who do you know, who do you know, like that? That is such an amazing way to go through something like to approach it when you’re building a business because networking is so so important. And if you don’t ask that question, I mean, more often than not, like people are willing to help out. They’re willing to make introductions. But if you don’t ask that question, it might not come across their mind of like, oh, you know what, like, I know, this manufacturer of like, you know, this fine material that actually would be perfect for you. So we

Athena Kasvikis 29:30
don’t want to that point. What’s also interesting, so I still do that. And I bet you you agree with us too, but people forget to do that with me. Right? Because they think oh, Athena owns behave, bra, she’s a bra person. Y’all don’t understand, like, I have the huge network and Food, Drug, OTC beverages, because I was in brand. I can tell you the rabbi you need to talk to in New York City to get your OU certification. I know who to call on fair trade. Like, I have this whole other life that I think people don’t remember. And so I asked my network constantly who they know, not because I think they’re gonna know 1000 lingerie people, I don’t know if there are, but because you don’t know what someone’s experiences are and who they’ve met, I am terrible at networking. I don’t like to have to do something for the sake of doing something. I am awesome at relationships. So if I can just meet someone one on one and be able to not only ask for help, but then offer help, chances are I can help anybody I talked to with someone or something. So I’ve learned to not only ask, but I also offer, like, what do you need? What can I help you with? Are you trying to hire a unique candidates? Like, what do you need? I can help? And I’m willing to help. And I think that goes a long way. Right?

Max Branstetter 30:50
It does an overall when you look at behave like what what’s the key decision you made that truly turned into, you know, like a big inflection point for the business.

Athena Kasvikis 31:06
Answering the phone when the Shark Tank lady called the what do they called the casting director, and giving her this is a true story. So they called I was on a walk. It was still during COVID I was trying to get out every day to do a one and a half hour walk during lunch just like clear my head get away from a desk, I found that it was making me a lot more productive. And I got a phone call from an LA number. And I got a voicemail saying I was a casting director for Shark Tank. And I’m like, sure you are, whatever. So I call this woman back. Her name was Erin. And I proceed to give her a virtual bra fitting, because I don’t factor. I think she’s calling me it’s because she needs help with her boobs. And so for 45 minutes, I am just like giving a here’s how you size yourself. And here’s how you know and it doesn’t sound like you’re in the right stuff. I swear to get to the end of it. And she’s like, I really think shark tank would love you. And are you talking about like, Are you right? Like, are you? Like, yes, Athena? So what are the next set? Like, how would I even go about doing something like that? She was like, Okay, well, this was round one. So good job. I’ll send John around. Like, Oh, okay. So that was I think the big. The big thing that I again, I’ve learned I have to relearn this. I don’t know if you relate this to there are certain lessons I have to relearn every year. One is that people like me when I meet, and not necessarily when I’m boring, you know, buttoned up proctor Athena? People just like me. And so stuff like that happens were kind of the biggest phone call of the business life. At that point, I had no idea. And I was just me and it worked out great. Right? Like, that’s, it’s a good like remembrance. And then after that I you know, as soon as I was like, this is legit. And as soon as they were like, we like you, I was like, well stop what you’re doing. And let’s go 100% At this, that it’s not the way to build your business. It was never in my business plan, hey, let’s go on Shark Tank and sell a million dollars. That’d be great. But the end of the day, if that opportunity comes, you know, one of the things I always tell new entrepreneurs is like, say yes to everything. Just do yourself a favor and just say yes to everything. And then you can start to learn and filter as you go. But start by saying yes to everything. So yeah, immediately I said yes. And then went all in on that. And I remember my producers told me they were like, You are literally the easiest, most prepared most well put together company we have ever worked with. Because part of that me was like you want something on Wednesday, I’m gonna get it to Monday, you send me this document. And I know it’s not exactly what you need the information you need. This is proctor stuff, I am not only going to fill out the document that you’ve asked me to fill out, I’m also going to include my own document with the information that I actually think you want. Just in case. That is what you need, that I don’t have to do rework and emails and have you asking this, you know, a week from now. They were like, it’s incredible. And I was like babes. I’m like 30 something. I’ve learned my lessons like Yeah, I think it’s part of the reason why shark tank for me went really well and wasn’t as horrible as I’ve heard from other companies. Because I came in ready to play. I was like, Yo, let’s go you want to do this. I will devote 100% effort to this. You You are gonna have to like kick me in the face and tell me no for this not to work out for me.

Max Branstetter 34:44
So they tracked you down. Definitely came into play if you came to swim with the Sharks, then you did well, but like they tracked you down like you didn’t you didn’t like apply to them separately? Like how that work?

Athena Kasvikis 34:58
You know, I don’t really know um, They have a way of finding companies. It could have been through mass challenge, it could have been through LinkedIn, I think she said something about LinkedIn. Apparently, they get hundreds of thousands of applications. But they also weren’t looking to. So I don’t know enough about how they do that whole process. But I know that I’m not the only one that that’s kind of happened to, again, getting dragged down by casting director is not a big deal, I would say, because at the end of the day, all of the stuff that comes after is the hard stuff. I have had multiple people I know, not made it through to film, multiple people in the last three years, probably four people I know that didn’t make it through the process, got halfway through the process got let go or got all the way up to filmed and never aired. So now that I know that I realized kind of, I look back and I give myself a pat on the shoulder to say, hey, you were really smart for being as aggressive as I was about, you know, just making sure I was the easiest person they’d ever worked with. That goes a long way. For real, because I think, you know, it’s so fickle. They could drop you at any moment. They don’t care about you. But if you’re easy, and you’re the one that’s ready to go before anybody else is it’s really easy to keep that momentum and get through the process.

Max Branstetter 36:14
If you want to keep your momentum going in the entrepreneurship and podcasting worlds, which come on you do, I know, if you’re in those spaces, you do, I can tell. I have something that might be of interest to you. That is the Podcasting to the Max newsletter. It is a short email every Thursday to you where – duh – and it’s where podcasting meets entrepreneurship, you can sign up at MaxPodcasting.com/Newsletter. That is all it takes. And then you are delighted with a beautiful love note of entrepreneurship stories, podcasting tips, and terrible, no good, very bad dad jokes. Now, let’s find out how Athena keeps her momentum going and stays so creative. So, let’s switch gears a little bit. Let’s get to Inspiration and Creativity, more you on the personal side kind of outside of work. What do you do in your free time to stay creative?

Athena Kasvikis 37:16
Ah, I love how you say that – free time.

Max Branstetter 37:20
It’s a good joke, right?

Athena Kasvikis 37:21
That’s a good joke. So there’s a couple things I don’t do first, when I’m doing financials, I have found that I can’t be creative that day, my head goes so deep. So like I said, I am really, really, really, really dangerous with accounting and finance. I hate it. You know, for people that do it, I would love to pay you money to do it. And so I’ve done that I have a fractional CFO and I have a CPA and I have a bookkeeper. However, great example is this fall, I found a $200,000 error on my profit and loss statement. That’s a big deal. For a company like mine, I found that my CPA didn’t find it, my bookkeeper didn’t find it. And that’s because I know my business better than anybody else. And so that’s the kind of stuff you have to do. During that process. I was very uncreative. And the reason is, is because my my brain sort of can’t seem to do both at once. I get very, very deep into finance, and accounting and numbers. And I get very, very far away from being able to think creatively about a cool new marketing slogan or social media post. So what I do for creative stuff is I try to generally plan, not plan out but okay, by Friday, I need to do this post and whatever. And so I’ll start thinking about it on Monday, and I plan exercising in walks. I know it sounds crazy, but if I’m sitting at my desk, I’m putting out fires all day, I’m currently today have some fires to put out this afternoon, like I already know they’re coming. That being said, I’m going to the gym, and we’re done here. Because I also have creative that’s got to get out. And so I’m gonna go to the gym, I’m going to literally spend that hour and I’m going to let my brain kind of go crazy. And what happens for me when I’m sort of away from distraction, and I’m sort of in my little zone is my brain gets really, really creative about like stuff, do you I’m talking about where you’re like, I wonder if elephants have, I don’t know, wheelie like hard toenails. And then that was just thinking,

Max Branstetter 39:18
Well, no, not that exactly. But

Athena Kasvikis 39:19
the thousand other things that you somehow end up with where I’m like, oh, wouldn’t it be super cool. If this smooth bra we’re working on had this like, imprint that wasn’t actually like printed, but it was like key transfer printed. And that was in the actual fabric. That’s where I’m at my best. So I try to schedule downtime exercise because I see it’s, if I’m moving, I’m thinking, and if I’m thinking that I’m being creative, so but I’ve learned it’s got moving. I can’t just go sit in a dark room like that doesn’t work for me. I have to physically be active and then I get real creative.

Max Branstetter 39:58
I think there’s something To like, I don’t know the science behind it, but just like even walking around, you know, going outside for a walk, or it’s like whether you’re at the gym or running or elliptical, you know, peloton, whatever you’re doing something like sparks awake in your mind when you are moving. So definitely can can get that. And it turns into creativity.

Athena Kasvikis 40:18
My other thing, talking to people, so like, again, as a founder, you can sit here all day and not talk to anybody if you’re working. Now, that’s not my life. I’ve talked to a lot of people, but I still do virtual fittings with customers. So literally, I talked to my customers more than any buddy I’ve ever heard of, that sparks wild creativity. And that’s why I still do it. Even though I don’t really have time I make time. I was talking to a woman the other day, and she was like, it’s really hard to get on and off the bra. And I was like, Well, okay, and she was like, I pull it over my head. And I was like, Girl, let me change your life into the bra, so that you pull it up underneath your bras vs. pulling it over your head. It is stretchy enough where most of our customers can step right into it and pull it up. It was like the her mind blew, she went, oh my god, she tried it while we were on the video. And I was like, Why have I not done anything about like this, I need to start, this would be a crazy good TikTok women’s minds would blow. And it’s the simplest stupidest thing ever. And I get it from customers. So that’s my other thing I do I talk to as many people as I can that were our product or have tried our product, and just get like super creative with them.

Max Branstetter 41:33
What advice would you have for other founders that are like, kind of in that rut? Where they’re like by themselves all the time? Like, what advice would you have for people who, for founders who want to talk to their customers more? Like how do you set up like that?

Athena Kasvikis 41:46
Frickin do it. I mean, when we first started, we didn’t have a lot of sales, I would look people up. Come through, I give it a week. And then I would email them and be like, I would love to know what you think. I would love to get your feedback. I’ve been doing this since I started. It’s not because I thought it was a good business move per se, though. Gosh, it is it more because I truly wanted to understand what people thought. When you invest your own money into your own business. It is in your best interest to make sure that’s a good investment. And if not, right, find out what you need to do to make it better. Because that first year I talked to so many women, we now have padded straps on our bras. Right? And it was I had always wanted that. But I wasn’t sure everybody I talked to I was like, hey, what do you think about this? Every woman I talked to was like, why don’t you have that that’d be so amazing. That’d be great. If that kind of stuff, you’re like, Okay, I’m gonna go do that make my product better make my customers happy. I don’t need to run a research study that costs $400,000 for Procter to know that that’s the right thing to do. Because I talked to my customers. So I It also gives me cred with like investors ask me questions. I’ve heard those conversations. I keep track of who I’m talking to. I keep notes like, Yeah, I’m my own quantitative research. But for real, I can speak from that I have a couple of founder friends that don’t do that. They’re too busy. And I think there’s a big difference between credibility with those of us that do and those of us that don’t have time, you got to kind of make the time. So I’ll do it at night. It’s like eight o’clock at night, and I’m doing bra fittings, and we’ve done over a million dollars and we have big stuff coming this year. But like that is valuable for me never get too big for your britches, talk to your people hunt them down. They will absolutely inspire you creatively and maybe help you kind of fix some of the stuff on your business, right.

Max Branstetter 43:45
So let’s get to some questions that you probably aren’t asked too often by investors. This is called The Unusual. So pet peeves, quirks, weird talents. First off, weird talents – what’s like a something you’re really really good at, but it could be just like a minor detail, but like it’s almost could be like a party trick?

Athena Kasvikis 44:03
Okay, so I can size anybody’s boobs in 10 seconds. Visually.

Max Branstetter 44:09
That’s a superpower.

Athena Kasvikis 44:11
Honestly, like take me out somewhere. Anywhere. I can tell you and you’re like, hey, her across there. And I’m like, that’s a 34H people are like, trust me.

Max Branstetter 44:22
Have you tested this? Like, Have you confirmed it? Or is it all hypothesis?

Athena Kasvikis 44:25
Well, it’s been tested. I can do I mean, what do you think I do Zoom calls like some of the women I’m just like showing? No, and I’m like, Alright, this is what you are. And then I found out because you do need to know whether like your ego can support. Is it legit? And yeah, no, right.

Max Branstetter 44:43
Literally support.

Athena Kasvikis 44:44
Yeah, I mean, you see enough boobs and you learn just how to do it. I’m worse than any guy you’ve ever met. I and it takes not a second I walked by and I’m gonna be like, Oh, is she your customer? I’m like, totally my customer. She’d be a size X no problem. Keep going, like it’s good nature

Max Branstetter 45:04
as a weird talent of weird talents, appreciate it. How about quirks but something a little quirky about your personality and maybe family, friends, coworkers, somebody calls you out for it, but it’s who you are. knows it’s quirky,

Athena Kasvikis 45:14
but I am the one you call when you want a truth bomb. So I’ve learned as I’ve gotten older, I’ve learned that so I’m not the one you call when you made bad choices, and you want somebody to make you feel okay about that. Don’t call me. That’s a bad idea. I’m the one you call when you make bad choices. And you’re like, where do we go from here? I had a friend call me and said that I was the very the body friend. She’s like, literally.

Max Branstetter 45:40
That is incredibly detailed. Yeah. Yeah. It’s

Athena Kasvikis 45:43
just like, if we ever, you know, anything ever went down, who would you call? And they were both like we call Athena because Athena would be like, Yep, no problem on a plane. See there talk to no one. Right? And she’s just who you are. So that’s kind of a quirk of my personality. But I have gotten better, where sometimes now I’ll be like, Okay, what do you need for me today? Do you need someone to listen? No problem? Or do you want to solve problems? Right, I need to know where you need me. Because my personality will go right into problem solving. And I’ve learned that sometimes emotionally. That is not what people want. So I’m, I’m working on that actively. But yeah, I asked anybody, any of my friends or family and they’re like, yep, that’s the thing.

Max Branstetter 46:26
So what’s the theme is pet peeve. biggest pet peeve?

Athena Kasvikis 46:29
I have a couple I have a lot. I would say, business wise, one of my biggest pet peeves is people not being good humans. Recently, I have recommended a couple of companies to one of my resources that’s like, oh, The Wizard of Oz. Like he’s unbelievable with stuff. And I have subsequently found out months later that they either didn’t pay him, or they are answering emails or whatever. That’s the stuff. And you know, this, that’s a huge pet peeve for me, because I’ve taken my reputation and my network, and I’ve given you a part of that in good faith. Right? And then when I get that phone call saying, Hey, do you know where so and so as they haven’t paid me in three months, and I’m like, Excuse me, that’s the that’s a huge pet peeve, because at the end of the day, business is business. And I believe that and I’m very not emotional, usually when it comes to business stuff. But well, that’s how I operate. We both know that business ultimately is personal, to people deciding to work together on something. And so personally, that’s it for me, right? You’re cut off forever, it doesn’t mean that I’m going to, you know, do anything about it, per se, but you will never get a contact, I will never help out again, that’s a huge pet peeve. And it’s more recent, I’ve seen that kind of happen a little bit. But the world is small. It’s a very bad move to behave that way in business. So that is a huge pet peeve. That’s business and personal man, it makes me want to like show people where I’m just like, be a good human.

Max Branstetter 48:10
Let’s wrap up with some Rapid-Fire Q&A. You ready for it? Alright, let’s get Wild! Mr. Wonderful. How involved would you say and like, you know, these days is Mr. Wonderful in Behave?

Athena Kasvikis 48:22
Not. So we ended up not signing the deal with him that ran on the show, because why? Oh, they hadn’t signed it. And when I aired, I sold out almost immediately. I had a 13,000 person waitlist by that Monday and said no deal for me. Thank you. You didn’t sign we’re not doing it. That being said, his team is you know, he’s got a huge team. So you deal mostly with them? We will we’re still talking to them about a different kind of deal. That does not include equity.

Max Branstetter 48:51
Well, that sounds wonderful. In the spirit of Oh, Behave, what is one movie that if you could only watch one movie for the rest of your life, this would be it?

Athena Kasvikis 49:04
Oh god, Princess Bride.

Max Branstetter 49:08
Marriage. Okay, how about commuting? You mentioned that you have, you know, probably like still shiver at the thought of commuting on a 95. But besides taking conference calls at that time, what is what’s another way to just kind of like soothe the pains of commuting and make it a little bit more bearable?

Athena Kasvikis 49:25
Honestly, I’ll call people, friends family catch up. I know it sounds terrible. But I use commuting as a time to accomplish things and family and friends or I hate to put it down as like a work item. But yeah, like I will literally check in on people because then that means I don’t have to do that at night. Again. That sounds really brutal. It’s like it’s so off the list. I know I gotta call Rachel so let’s call her right now on my my commute. Let’s get that you know, I tried to make it as productive as possible because if not, it’s just brutal.

Max Branstetter 49:57
And speaking of the opposite of brutal law, Question So you went to business school in Rochester shout out Simon. Many mutual friends Shannon, Kim, my father-in-law Gary who went there as well. I don’t know if you overlapped at all but you can choose either these routes. Are you a bigger Dinosaur Bar-B-Que or Wegmans fan?

Athena Kasvikis 50:18
Wegmans all day, 100%. I got my mother to move to this area. So we’re from Rochester, New York. That’s where I grew up. Oh, you’re

Max Branstetter 50:28
from Rochester originally? Okay.

Athena Kasvikis 50:30
We got my mother to move here because they opened a Wegmans 30 minutes away. And that was just far enough where she was like, she goes once a week, like without Wegmans. I don’t think the family would be together. I’m not gonna lie. It’s my favorite place in the world. True story. Back when I used to make money back in the day, I actually got a call from the general manager of the Wegmans out here trying to get me to come in to the store and I could not figure out why Wegmans was calling me right, super weird, because I would go in twice a week. And, you know, I’m the one that goes in and buys like $300 worth of stuff for like one person. It’s like sushi and produto. And that’s me. Finally, I’m like, Dude, I don’t understand like all he wants to talk to you and give you a little gift for being one of our top customers. And I was like, joking, joking. I go in, I was top 1% of customers. Custom gift box met the general manager took pictures. I swear to God, it might have been the most proudest moment of my life. Ever This is they do this for their customers. So FYI, if anybody ever wants to spend more of their income than they should on logins that can happen for you. Sure, God

Max Branstetter 51:41
well, yeah, your background and reputation speaks for itself. But if I knew that you were you know, one of the top Wegmans customers of all time I would have been too intimidated to even do this interview. So thanks for saving that but yeah, that’s it I’ve never heard and I’ve only been to it. Once I got to go to a what I got. It’s like going to a field trip. I got to go to a Wegmans in Williamsport, Pennsylvania when we were doing some sponsorship for Little League and was working at so that was pretty cool. Because just seeing like hands down like Wegmans is amazing. I see why there’s so much hype about it. But I’ve never heard so much like pride and support around a grocery store ever in the world besides Wegmans is ridiculous.

Athena Kasvikis 52:19
But let me tell you I moved to Cincinnati to work for Procter and that was Kroger country now I lived a block headquarters I’ve been back many times to sell into them. Here’s your three differences, right? And Kroger, by the way, is a great grocery store versus other ones. Here in Massachusetts, we have something called Stop and Shop I call it stop and lose, like youngsters that meet there. Right? Or like something that’s off or produce that goes back in the day. That is the difference between all these other grocery stores on Wegmans. Like Wegmans, he has delicious gourmet food. I just got sushi from there last night.

Max Branstetter 52:53
As part of the $300 tab

Athena Kasvikis 52:55
I got from a grocery store, right? You’re like, there was a sushi chef who made it for me on site. That’s one to know, they have the best produce. So I used to work in CPG. Now this they turn their produce 40 times more than any other grocery store out there. 40 So like everything you’re buying is fresh. It’s awesome. Whenever Whole Foods is great, don’t get me wrong. But there’s Wegmans is a different level of all around my ex boyfriend when I first moved here, he did not understand. He was just like, this is the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard grocery store. And then give him like a month in two months. And he was like, Oh, it’s just really cool. Like I can go and get I really want this the subs are awesome, right? And then you start to build and then within you know six months, you’re like diehard let’s go tailgate at the new Wegmans opening. You’re crazy.

Max Branstetter 53:47
And now he’s a top five Wegmans customer of all time as well. So that’s how it goes. But it’s not really a store. It’s more of a lifestyle, I think a brand. So

Athena Kasvikis 53:58
but we’re all trying to build over like, brand value and love brands, it’s the thing for behave that I’ve always wanted for a brand that we are building. Like we are building a love brand. It’s not just like a great bra. Like we are building, whether it’s me doing virtual fittings, or, you know, we have all these five star reviews and I’ll follow up and I’ll answer their queries and they’ll say thank you. Wegmans is a love brand. It’s better than a grocery store. Same thing with behave, man, that is my goal is to have people be like, Oh my god, I love this brand. Forget about the bra. This brand is awesome. The owners great, like, that’s what I’m trying to do here. And I think that’s like the pinnacle. You know, for me if we get there, I will have accomplished my goals. 100% 100% So,

Max Branstetter 54:45
a phoenix. Thank you so much. This has been 100% and outstanding interview and I really appreciate your time today as well as just everything you do with behave and and beyond just to have some alliteration there with the bees. But thanks so much for coming on and where’s the best place? For people to try out behave if they’re interested and connect with you online.

Athena Kasvikis 55:04
So we only today, today, we only sell it BehaveBras.com. We got some big stuff lined up this year that I can’t talk about quite yet. And you might see us on Shark Tank again, we’ll see. Best way to connect is either at BehaveBras.com. Grab you know, we have a customer service team called the Mom Squad. It’s a bunch of moms that help women make sense of their lives are also on social media @BehaveBras and any of the platforms, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and I hit that stuff up. I’m very active on our stuff. So you could always get a hold of me and just be like, Hey girl, what’s up and

Max Branstetter 55:41
that’s the you have to say it exactly like that. The exact same tone and everything. Awesome and then last thing Final Thoughts, stage is yours it could be a quote, you know, words of advice, another Austin Powers line, whatever you want, and send us home here.

Athena Kasvikis 55:53
Best advice I ever got, that I will give everyone I talked to is if you want everybody else’s career, go do what everybody else does. Don’t want everybody else’s career, go break it. That’s my inspiration, advice for everybody go break the system, do whatever you want to do and have your own career. Because it’s clearly not a straight line. But it can be super fun when you kind of get off that normal path.

Max Branstetter 56:22
I am all for super fun paths. Athena, thank you so much for coming on the podcast, sharing your amazing Behave story, entrepreneurship tips, all the above. And thank you, Wild Listeners, for tuning in to another episode. If you want to hear more Wild stories like this one, make sure to follow the Wild Business Growth Podcast on your favorite app and tell a friend about the podcast. And then, go watch Austin Powers with them – any of the movies. I mean, I’m really pushing this. You can also find us on Goodpods, where there are fantastic podcast people and recommendations. And for any help with podcast production, you can learn more at MaxPodcasting.com and sign up for the Podcasting to the Max newsletter at MaxPodcasting.com/Newsletter. Until next time, let your business Run Wild…Bring on the Bongos!!