Full Transcript – Alex Van Alen – Wild Business Growth Podcast #232

This is the full transcript for Episode #232 of the Wild Business Growth Podcast featuring Alex Van Alen – Sports Alchemist, Founder of FlingGolf. You can listen to the interview and learn more here. Please note: this transcript is not 100% accurate.

Alex Van Alen 0:00
You know, it’s more about persistence and willingness to jump in, start swimming and see what happens. You know, have some faith and see what happens and keep it going

Max Branstetter 0:08
How do you do? Welcome back to the Wild Business Growth Podcast. This is your place to hear from a new entrepreneur every single Wednesday morning who’s turning Wild ideas into Wild growth. I’m your host, Max Branstetter, Founder and Podcast Producer at MaxPodcasting, and you can email me at to save time with your high-quality podcast. This is Episode 232, which is a palindrome, hurray! And today’s guest is Alex Van Alen, which is almost kind of like a palindrome of a name in itself. But Alex is the Founder and CEO of FlingGolf, of World League FlingGolf, as well as New Swarm, the company behind it. And FlingGolf is a crazy, cool, clever, new sport that is inspired by the likes of golf, lacrosse, and jai alai, and even finds inspiration in the snowboarding story. In this episode, we talk what it is like creating a brand new sport. All the crazy hurdles and things to consider rules, athletes, equipment, marketing, publicity – all that. Alex’s favorite parts about the sport which is his baby. And oh yeah, his time living in the rainforest in Borneo with a nomadic tribe. It is The Man, The Van, Alex Van A. Enjoyyyyyyy the shooooooow!

Aaaaalrightyyyyy we are here with Alex Van Alen, the Founder and CEO of FlingGolf as well as New Swarm, the company behind FlingGolf and all things FlingGolf. Super cool, new sport that at the time of this recording is not quite new, because celebrating 10-year anniversary, so congrats on that. But Alex, so excited to speak to you today. Thanks for joining. How you doing today?

Alex Van Alen 2:22
I’m doing great, Max. Yeah. Thanks for having me. I’m just psyched to chat.

Max Branstetter 2:26
Of course, I’m psyched to chat as well. You don’t hear that enough. People don’t say psyched enough. I always like that. It’s like yeah, full energy old school. I

Alex Van Alen 2:33
don’t know. But yeah, yeah.

Max Branstetter 2:35
So you’re, you’re a Psyched major, then. No, but excited to get to FlingGolf. But before that, you actually studied and worked for a while in the worlds of ecology and conservation areas that I think are pretty cool. But I know like very minimal amount. And we actually had a guest a while back, Episode 49, which I did look up before, you know, cards on the table, Steve Woodruff, who goes by the King of Clarity, who he said if he wasn’t doing what he does, he would love to be someone who you know, like creates new trails and, you know, takes care of trails and kind of all things in outdoor space. And that sounds kind of like what you were doing before FlingGolf is Is there any truth

Alex Van Alen 3:18
to that? Yeah, no, there’s definitely truth to that I had a my whole education is in environmental conservation and got a master’s in ecology. And then my sort of career before FlingGolf was really land conservation. I did some work abroad in Mongolia and Borneo and worked for the Academy natural sciences in Philadelphia and sort of get to see the world and yet got to get to the outdoors a lot which was which was great. And I’m looking forward to getting there again someday but busy with the business right now.

Max Branstetter 3:48
Mongolia and Borneo that is I think Borneo there was a Survivor season there maybe Mongolia as well, but pretty unique locations. What were you doing in those areas?

Alex Van Alen 3:57
In Borneo, I went right after college. And I was fascinated by this a nomadic tribe up in the rainforest. And I talked to a guy in college who had been up, you know, with them, and I mean, this is really remote Borneo. And I just sort of got obsessed with the idea of going up and living with these people and understanding them a little bit better and it’s crazy adventure. Getting over there is easy getting to Malaysia but then getting up into the rainforest, which was highly illegal. At the time, the government was not very happy about any Westerners going up there but I did manage to get up their truck for quite a few days through the rain forest to get to this drive and, and then I was with them for about three weeks. Fascinating, amazing, amazing time in my life and amazing people

Max Branstetter 4:42
is amazing. Oh my god is Borneo in Malaysia. I don’t even know where it is.

Alex Van Alen 4:46
Well, Borneo is actually an island that has three countries. Most of it is Indonesia and then Malaysia and then there’s a little tiny country called Brunei, which is a very small little kingdom but has a massive natural gas I think He’s the richest country per capita in the world. They’ve got a huge natural gas field. Oh, wow. But it’s mostly rainforest. Yeah.

Max Branstetter 5:06
Mostly rainforest. So here you are, for weeks living in the rainforest with the tribe that probably like, Who the hell is this? You know, future FlingGolf inventor that’s cramping our style, but But how was your experience overall, like any really, really interesting things you took away from that?

Alex Van Alen 5:24
You know, I was going over there went over there by myself. And then I met this guy from New Zealand. And I sort of told him what I was up to. And he came along with me. So we had a good, you know, it’s good to have another partner along for the ride, there was a lot of deforestation going on in the rainforest at that time. And unfortunately, there still is this tribe was fight the word peaceful tribe, but they were fighting the, you know, putting up these blockades on logging roads and all that. So we sort of got, we got involved with that, but we saw it and we talked to them about it and sort of understood what they were fighting against. And anyway, that led to another trip back to Borneo later. And I worked with a guy named Wade Davis on a book about that. So this is back in the 90s. So quite a while ago, really busy, fascinating. People, obviously an incredible environment. And now I was very blessed to be able to go over there at that time,

Max Branstetter 6:14
this particular tribe besides like, you know, living in the rainforest, and you know, dealing with deforestation, and like crazy things like that. What would you say is, you know, the biggest difference in their lives versus like the lives you know, we’re just kind of accustomed to ourselves. Wow,

Alex Van Alen 6:32
yeah. Pretty, pretty massive difference there. This tribe in particular was nomadic, so they didn’t stay, they would build these structures. And then, I mean, they would stay there maybe for a month or two months and hunt. You know, there’s hunter gatherers, and they blow pipes with poisoned darts, you know, whole thing. But then they would move on to another place. And they, you know, over the years, they would go back to the same places, they knew the rainforest back and forth, every little creek and valley, but then their settlements would just disappear, melt into the rainforest, you know, rot, and they’d build new one. And it was just an incredibly simple. I’m the, I guess, prehistoric lifestyle. They were wonderful people, I mean, really gentle. This tribe, in particular, a lot of Borneo headhunting tribes. And this tribe was not headhunters. And they were but they were the farthest up most remote in the highest regions of Borneo. But some of the other tribes were headhunters. And they don’t do it today, but they’d done it up until the 1940s. I think,

Max Branstetter 7:37
headhunters Is that Is that what it sounds like? That is

Alex Van Alen 7:41
what it is? Yes, exactly. I actually stayed with one. One tribe called the Iban tribe, and they continue to do their ceremonies. And they had in their long houses, these long sort of almost apartment buildings in there in the rain forest, hanging from the rafters where these root woven baskets of skulls that they had kept over the years and decades, and they would continue to do these ceremonies every year living out these headhunting dances and amazing, amazing stuff. And adults sort of brought one of the headhunting swords back with me, which is quite kind of cool.

Max Branstetter 8:18
Oh my god. I don’t think I’ll ever think of the term Headhunter headhunter, again, like when you hear about, like recruiters that are headhunters that

Alex Van Alen 8:26
yeah, no, no. Different.

Max Branstetter 8:29
But that’s an incredible experience overall, what would you say is the top thing that you took away from that experience that kind of shaped like, your interests? Or what you wanted to do in life?

Alex Van Alen 8:40
Yeah, I think it’s, I mean, I had always been from very early age, you know, interested in the environment and protecting the environment. And that was what’s really drew me over there was this culture that had been, you know, for literally hundreds of 1000s of years, the same was now being threatened because of the deforestation in the rainforest. And sort of, you know, live with that since then. Really, you know, how do I how do I work towards, you know, protecting the planet in a way and it’s interesting FlingGolf is not directly involved in that, but I would like to make it but I’m fascinated by this intersection of capitalism, and how that’s changing to actually protect the planet and it very slowly will we’re turning that at tanker or wherever. That boat right now, I hope to use the forces of capitalism to do good for wealth for the environment and for other causes as well.

Max Branstetter 9:41
So that is a perfect segue. I was just about to transition and you did it for us. So thank you, you’ve done your homework. But let’s get to FlingGolf. And as you alluded to, there are certainly plenty of opportunities that you can tie that back to your passions, but I think one thing in common is that it is all about the tours and being out there and enjoying nature and enjoying, you know, the land around you. And it’s a really, really clever sport that again, is, you know, 10 years old now, inventing a new sport has, I think something that maybe, you know, a decent amount of people have thought of, but not many people have actually gone and tried to, you know, like, break the mold of the, you know, whatever there are, like, doesn’t like main sports that are out there in traditional sports. When did the thought first pop in your mind of all I could start something new here.

Alex Van Alen 10:31
Yeah, I mean, I think the origins of it were growing up, I played a little lacrosse and I played some golf, and a lot of other other different sports. And when I was a kid, we, my brothers and I, and some neighbors would play this game where we use a lacrosse stick, and threw golf balls around the farm, you know, hitting trees and going across ponds and things like that encounter scores along the way, sort of lacrosse golf. And that was a long time ago. And then just a bunch of things came together. 10 or so years ago, to really I just really got obsessed with this idea. How far can I throw a golf ball? And you know, lacrosse stick and throw it with no real feel, you know, maybe 50 yards, 60 yards. But then I started putting pieces together of different toys and equipment, golf clubs, things like that, to really see how far I could throw a golf ball. And I was getting through these like early it called prototypes, I guess. Maybe 80, 90 yards maybe max. I was at an antique store. Just we live in New England. There tons of antique stores around I saw a window this jai alai cesta which I don’t know if you’re familiar with jai alai.

Max Branstetter 11:39
Yeah, the I know you’re talking about the sport. I mean, I think now it’s especially well known for Cigar City Brewery in Tampa. Their most popular IPA is Jai Alai IPA. But yeah, familiar with the sport and it’s been in like Mad Men, it’s been in Jackass. Yeah, it’s all over the place.

Alex Van Alen 11:57
Yeah, it’s a pretty random sport. Not a lot of people play it in the US. And I think it orange originated in the Basque country in Spain. But then they play it. You know, I think Miami, Fort Lauderdale. Few places, I think they played in Hartford at one point, but not many places. Anyway, I got this highlight basket. And that sort of technologically, it’s amazing. This thing is literally made out of wicker. And he put it on your hand and says big scoop that you throw a ball against the wall and it bounces back, you catch it, or your your opponent catches it throws it against the wall, so it’s like racquetball, but instead of hitting the ball, you’re catching throwing it. And I started throwing golf balls out of that. And I was like, Whoa, you know, just had a whole different feel. And it just just shot the ball out of the cesta. And whereas before, it was just like, you know, just everything I could put into it as getting 80 yards. And with a highlight test, I was getting a lot more yardage and a lot more feel. And actually being able to shape the shots, different ways and spin them different ways. So I could, you know, have a little bit of faith a little bit of a draw, depending on how I swung it. So that was a big step forward. In creating the flagstick, which is the equipment used to play fling golf, that was a big moment to get that sort of extra distance. And that really made me I always believed there was something there. But that really made me just the feel of it made me believe that I could create something you could throw the golf ball that far. And then it was a matter of you know, okay, prototyping that out building that out. And then, you know, okay, now I got to develop a sport. And it’s the most traditional, you know, place in the world, which is the golf courses. Yes,

Max Branstetter 13:36
small, small tax there. Well, first of all, I think I think a lot of people haven’t even heard of jai alai.

Alex Van Alen 13:41
You know, I’d heard about jai alai just visiting my grandparents in Florida, you know, as a kid, and we’re seeing like, billboards and stuff like that. And so I saw some videos on it like a guest when I was younger. And then I recognized that when I was walking by this, you know, antique shop in Essex, Mass.

Max Branstetter 13:58
It’s so funny to think about that. I mentioned that it’s been on Mad Men. I mean, there’s literally, I don’t know, there’s at some point in this series, somebody has the idea that highlight is like the next big new sport that can take over America. So you know, that’s back in like the 60s. But like, clearly for like decades beyond that there was a big marketing push for it. That’s really, really funny. So you got the prototype together for the actual flying stick, which is just a fun word in itself. But how long did it take to get to a design that you were really, really happy with? And it actually worked?

Alex Van Alen 14:35
It was about probably a year and a half of prototyping. You know, this is well, I have another job and everything like that. So I quit my job to do that yet.

Max Branstetter 14:43
This is while you’re hanging out with tribes in Borneo.

Alex Van Alen 14:45
No, no, this is way way. Way later that took about 18 months I guess, to really get something that I felt was ready to go and then you know, and then it’s a big, big step to go okay, now I got to pay for a mold, you know, to produce the head and different vendors to get the shafts and grips and all that. So that was a whole other level.

Max Branstetter 15:08
I mean, there’s so many different pieces to components of if you break it down, but was there any particular insight while you’re prototyping that, like really helped move you guys ahead?

Alex Van Alen 15:20
Yeah, I mean, I fortunately, I been introduced to a product developer. And they really helped with all those details, I knew nothing about prototyping, I knew nothing about running a business to be honest, I sort of jumped in with both feet. And they they helped a lot with that process, they develop these vinyl cut, you know, put the all these pieces together to really, you should see the first prototypes. They’re like, they’re huge. And there be the basically the size of the jai alai cesta. So we’re just probably like three feet long. And then we started studying video of jai alai, and realize that the whole, you don’t need that whole basket that’s really for catching more than throwing, and we weren’t doing any catching and FlingGolf. So we really realized the whole game is almost played on that the last three inches of the jai alai cesta, and even the catching sometimes they just catching the very tip, and then throw it again because that to throw in one big motion. So that was a big moment when we realized, Okay, we just need something that’s like three inches long. It doesn’t need to be, you know, three feet long. So in a sense, we have a little mini jai alai basket on the end of a stick on an end of a what looks like a golf club, shaft and grip.

Max Branstetter 16:31
Yeah, that’s really cool. That’s a really strong insight of like, you don’t need the whole, the whole thing, I think, for people to try out a new sport, of course, the equipment has to be easy to use and like, not look like you’re you know, it’s like you’re wearing clown shoes around everywhere, like with the giant scoop thing. So I’m glad glad you unlock that. How about in terms of the rules? Like how did it how did you go about and break down like, alright, this, you know, clearly it has elements of golf, it has elements of lacrosse, it has elements of highlight, how do you go about and say, Alright, this, you know, this is the biggest difference between golf here, these are the rules that will set playing golf apart.

Alex Van Alen 17:16
Yeah, well, one thing we did not want to do. And so remember, this isn’t 2015-16 I guess we got golf was having real problems, pre COVID, they were having real problems attracting new players, there are 200 courses were closing each year. And so one thing, you know, very clear, we did not want to be that cumbersome, you know, so many rules that nobody knows what all the rules of golf are. I mean, it’s just way too detailed. And we had the advantage of not having to worry about the lie. And a lot of those rules of golf are about the lie. And whether you can ground, your club can’t ground your club, you know, can’t touch the ball, move the ball. In play golf, you just picked the ball up, and you take a few steps back, and then you throw it again. So it’s very, very simple. Those rules, you know, we kept it very basic. But of course, when you get into real competition, you’ve got to really refine the rules so that anything that happens during that competition, you got an answer for like, yes, you can do this, no, you can’t do that. And you have to make sure it’s obviously equal. People are playing for money, you know, trophies and stuff like that. You don’t want to be like, Oh, we didn’t really figure that out. So we spent a fair amount of time really honing those rules in and getting a lot of player feedback. But we really have focused on our players and supporting our players. We don’t see them as them supporting our business, we see us as supporting our players, because they are what’s going to drive this and what is driving this. So really one of our mottos is player driven. And so we rely on them to, you know, the best players and the most frequent players to really give us feedback on rules. And so we’ve had a lot of discussions on that front. And so far, it’s worked out well in the tournaments, we haven’t had any problems, I think we’ve covered most of it. And our rules really come down to about four or five pages. Whereas if you look at USGA golf rules, I think this you know, 294 pages.

Max Branstetter 19:11
I was gonna say I would bet over five pages. Yeah, exactly. That focus on players is hugely important. I mean, you hear businesses talking about, like, you know, customers can clean your customers everything. And it’s kind of different when you’re like, technically, yeah, they can be customers. But when you’re with a sport, it’s a totally different mindset when you think about them as players and what you can do to support them. So keeping that focus on players getting that player feedback, what does that look like today? Like how have you created a way to get feedback and keep the emphasis on the players?

Alex Van Alen 19:48
We started before COVID We were developing this World League FlingGolf so the official you know, League of the sport, and then COVID Hit obviously that just come pletely squashed and that people weren’t flying around going to tournaments and stuff like that. But there was a lot of play on golf courses, it was one of the best places you could be, you know, socially distance and a lot of families were playing. So we had that advantage of a lot more players getting out there during those two years or so COVID. And then right as right as COVID sort of was breaking, we got back in the saddle of growing the sport and growing the league, I should say. And that sort of coincided with ESPN giving us a call. And they had seen some of our earlier tournaments and seeing some of the stuff we’ve done on on YouTube, and they gave us a call. So we’d like to partner with you on your next tournament. So that kind of kicked us into high gear. And we had in your sort of first national tournament in Delaware. And that was a huge success. The first time the players really got together for me, you know, I always look to snowboarding as a model, I’m old enough to remember when snowboarding was first coming in. You take

Max Branstetter 21:03
that back. You’re a spring chicken.

Alex Van Alen 21:07
In ski resorts, we’re all sudden you see all the snowboarders Come on, and start growing away. Obviously, there’s a lot of resistance. But you see what snowboarding has become. And it still is, it really changed in my mind or really exemplified this awesome balance of competition and camaraderie, where you see snowboarders go out there compete against each other, and someone will beat them, they’ll be standing on the podium and someone will beat them. And they’re psyched that they got beat because they’re amazed at the tricks that they just did, or the you know, whatever they did coming down the halfpipe or whatever. And I just love that I just thought that was so cool. Because these guys, you know, and girls really push themselves hard to compete, but they’re still just such great sports. And so when that came around to our first national tournament, it really exemplified what this community was because it was the first time they all met each other they through social media, they’ve been, you know, in groups and, and this and that. But first time they met each other, and they played really hard and took it really seriously. But with a very wide, wide demographic. They all got along great. And I’m really great. And I really became very close friends. And it’s just grown from there. So we just feel that through this league. We want to grow that that feeling and really focus on the players and supporting them so that that vibe can grow. Because I think that’s what’s really going to drive the sport even more.

Max Branstetter 22:34
What’s going through your mind when you get a call, which may be a prank call or maybe real, you find you find out that ESPN is interested in what you created.

Alex Van Alen 22:44
Yeah, I think the if I remember, right, it was an email that we got. And I was driving somewhere and my partner call up and said, he said, you know, do you see that email? We just got in, you know, looked at it as he asked, you know, it’s definitely trying to email we had so many ridiculous emails of like, you know, he should do this, you should do that, or, you know, just stuff trying to get you to click or whatever. And I took a look through and he was like, I think this is real. It’s real. And so anyway, it turns out a lot we, you know, got in touch with the the woman who called us and or emailed us and sort of went from there.

Max Branstetter 23:22
That is so cool. I mean, in the sports world, of course, ESPN has been for decades and decades, what 50 years now been a worldwide leader in sports. So talk about validation for what you created. It’s amazing. One of the other things that is like a fascinating challenge about your business is that golf has been around forever. And these golf courses, so many of them around the US around the world are so storied, and I mean, just beautiful. And like, so well kept overall, but there’s like a really, you know, traditional golf culture around him. And there’s golf attire and everything in there. But how do you break it? And I noticed that on your site, you use the term liberate as far as people, you know, playing FlingGolf at a course for the first time. But how did you first start, quote unquote, breaking onto these courses to play fling golf instead of traditional golf there?

Alex Van Alen 24:19
Yeah, that’s a good, that’s a good question. And I think I was fortunate to start when golf courses were struggling, in which they aren’t really any more they had a real boost with with COVID. And so they were they were listening, you know, they were like, Look, if we can get more players on and they needed to get younger players on. They were listening to what I had to say. And so I worked with one of the first things I did was got in touch with the National Golf Course Owners Association. And I went to a few of their conferences and got to know the course owners and really sort of understand that their world and what their needs were. And so there’s a lot of interest. You know, some are some lip service to it like oh, yeah, that sounds cool. We’d love it and not really but because there is a lot of tradition In golf, but there was enough interest that enough people will listen to me and, and actually bought sticks and got things going that way. But you know, the other thing about golf that I came to learn, I didn’t really know much about the industry. But what I came to learn is, you know, there are 15,000 golf courses in the US alone. And so what you see on TV with Tiger Woods, or any of these guys plan, they’re playing the top end, nice formal courses, but there are literally 10,000, 12,000 Informal courses that are much less formal courses that are really, you know, mom and pop operations. And I always like to sort of equate them with farmers, and you know, they own 200 acres, it may have been in their family for generations, and they’re struggling, and they’re really, really trying to figure out how to make revenue. You know, they’re more open than the traditional ones, which are always going to do okay, or the private clubs, which are always going to do okay, you know, they’ve always got a safety net, but the mom and pops which are charging me $22, you know, around to, for people to come play, they’re struggling. So when people weren’t interested in golf, they would listen to what I had to say we had a few courses, you know, a few 100 courses that bought sticks, and we’re pushing it out and doing a pretty good job marketing, but you know, not not too much. But where it really came down to is the golf course is saying, Look, if you bring the players will let them play, we have no problem with them coming and playing. So that after the first few years, and I wish I had been quicker about it, of really focusing on the golf courses and educating them really started focusing on Okay, we have to grow this player base, you know, we can’t rely on the golf courses to grow their own player base. That was really a sort of change in strategy for us.

Max Branstetter 26:44
If you’re thinking your business needs a change in strategy, one way to do so is with a podcast that can really add new life to your business, open doors, you never know what it can turn into. But you do know that you’ll need some tips when it comes to launching a podcast producing a podcast, marketing a podcast, all sorts of stuff, sentences that end with podcast, and your place to learn all these things as well as be inspired from the entrepreneurship standpoint, sprinkle in some awful puns is the Podcasting to the Max newsletter. It comes straight to you every Thursday, and you can sign up at MaxPodcasting.com/Newsletter. Now let’s dive into the wide world of inventing sports. So let’s change strategy a little bit and move to inspiration and creativity. So, you know, typically this is about how you, on the personal side, stay inspired, come up with creative ideas. But it just keeps going back to this fascinating point that creating a new sport. Like there’s so much involved there and all the things that you talk through, it’s like, there’s so many things to consider like the FlingStick, the courses, you know, relationships with the players, as well as golf course owners, the whole marketing side of it, like there’s endless things to do. So thank you for, again for making time for this interview. But starting a new sport overall, what would you say are some like building blocks that like, Hey, if you’re gonna if you’re gonna start like a brand new sport in this crazy, you know, popular but crowded space?

Alex Van Alen 28:18
What does it take? Yeah, I think no matter how you slice it, it takes time. And more time than I then I thought, but I think I’m not the only entrepreneur who thought things were gonna go faster than they did

Max Branstetter 28:28
your that’s it. You’re the only one. You’re the only one that doesn’t like prototyping either. It doesn’t know about it.

Alex Van Alen 28:35
Yeah, right. Right. Exactly. No, it takes time. And it just takes time to grow something and we we consider, you know, partners, and I really consider we’re doing something big here. You know, we really believe that this is a sport for hundreds of years to come. And it’s going to be played by millions of players. And so we kind of take that mindset like, okay, it’s gonna take some time, but you know, I was inspired. Or I should say, I sort of lean on the story of snowboarding in and Jake Carpenter, who started Burton Snowboards and you know, back in 70s, 80s, and, you know, really studied sort of what he had gone through and how long it took him to get going. Because now you look at Burton and you’re in snowboarding, you’re like, Oh, it’s just, it’s just there.

Max Branstetter 29:19
Yeah, I never even thought about snowboarding in that. Like, you go to a mountain. And I mean, there’s I mean, often most places, there’s more skiers and snowboarders but still like, snowboarding is such a staple that you don’t even think of it as like, hey, this wasn’t always there. Like this came after skiing.

Alex Van Alen 29:37
Yeah, no, it was it was way after skiing. And it was. It had a lot of challenges getting on the mountains. And then from what I understand snowboarders were didn’t have as much control early on, as skiers did, but of course they do now.

Max Branstetter 29:51
It depends who you ask.

Alex Van Alen 29:53
Yeah, yeah, that’s right. I guess there’s still some out there. But ya know, snowboarding is in his heyday, I think was 40% of the lifting. It’s so actually got got up there. So I look at that story for inspiration and also sort of for faith, I guess, in a way that you know, you keep on plugging away and things happen. And that’s what I’ve seen happen is that you, you just stay persistent with it. And out of the blue, you’ll get a call from Shark Tank out of the blue, you’ll get a call from ESPN, and things start to snowball. It was I look back at that story a lot and what he did you know how long it took him to get going. But then, you know, things really picked up and then they started rolling quickly. So we’re sort of in that in that process right now.

Max Branstetter 30:37
Right? So takes a lot of time, but you can it could snowball in a beautiful way back to your your snowboarding metaphor. Yeah. And then, and then a tricky part about launching a new sport is like you. You want people to try it and you want people to love it and tell their friends and everything in that world. But you don’t want to like come across like you’re insulting golfer insulting lacrosse, or like, you know, stepping on these other sports. So how, how are you making sure that you’re careful about this is something that can be in addition, not like, you know, screw those other sports?

Alex Van Alen 31:09
Yeah, no, no, no, not a problem with lacrosse. But with golf, you have to tread a little bit of a fine line, we were sort of confident enough. Now we’ve got a big enough player base that we can poke a little bit of fun at golf, but because of its, you know, old traditions, and, you know, it’s stodgy stigma that it has, but honestly, a lot of golf companies are doing that same thing, because they know that, you know, that’s not a winning formula to be super traditional and old school. And I mean, like a Topgolf and, you know, Callaway owns Topgolf. And you know, that’s a fun thing, right? Go out there and drink a bunch of beers and have fun with your friends. It’s like really bowling. But that’s not a traditional way to experience golf. And so we’re starting that same boat, right, there were a different way to experience the golf course. And a lot and honestly, I think we figured out about 60% of our players are also golfers. So there is that sort of you can do both. I mean, you literally we have players that have fling sticks in their bags, and they might play both at the same time. So it’s really that sort of seamless with getting out on the golf course you have families that you know, Mom, Dad can play golf, and the kids can play FlingGolf or, you know, the wife plays golf, the husband plays FlingGolf, or whatever it is, but you can play at exactly the same time.

Max Branstetter 32:22
What is it for those that do both? You know, ambidextrous, traditional and FlingGolfers? What is it that says, I feel like playing FlingGolf today instead of traditional golf?

Alex Van Alen 32:33
from my point of view is that, hey, do you want to have fun, and it’s you know, it’s athletic. It’s more way more intuitive than golf. Golf is, you know, you get to go through your swing thought routine, and chances are, you’re gonna slice it or hook it anyway. And FlingGolf, you’re pretty guaranteed with any sort of level of athleticism, you’re pretty much guaranteed, you’re gonna have a fun time, get out on the course and you’re not going to lose your balls. And for just basic beginners, you’re gonna get it down the middle, and you’re gonna pop it down the middle. And it’s just fun to be out there. Of course, for the real good players, they get more competitive and more athletic. And it’s about shaping those shots. And it’s just a thrill. It’s honestly, you know, I played a lot of golf and you get the perfect ball strike. If you’re lucky three or four times round. And with fling golf, you really get that feeling each shot, it just fires out of the out of the basket. And it’s kind of an exhilarating, exhilarating feeling. Totally can

Max Branstetter 33:32
get behind that. And I can also get behind your quote, “Not going to lose your balls.” I think that’s a great soundbite that we can have a lot of fun with. So thank you for

speaking of the unusual and inappropriate, let’s get to a fun segment called the unusual. So this is totally about you on the personal side. Most of the time doesn’t tie back to your business, but you can tie it back if you want. But pet peeves, quirks weird talents, so you know, in addition to being a talented fling golfer, is there a name for FlingGolfers? Or do you call them FlingGolfers or Flingers? Yeah, yep. Flingers can mean something out Who even knows? But what’s a weird talent? Or like a party trick? Something minor that you’re just really good at?

Alex Van Alen 34:19
Oh, that’s a good question. Thank you. It’s a tough question. Actually. I’m not sure. Yeah, some quirks definitely. I’ve got some, you know, where

Max Branstetter 34:30
talent is seamlessly segwaying from weird talents to quarks.

Alex Van Alen 34:35
All right, good.

Max Branstetter 34:37
What works the other

Alex Van Alen 34:39
bringing back my my sort of interest in conservation. I’ve my family sort of laughs at me a little bit because I I’ve been geeking out on on conservation, like energy conservation. And so I like analyze how much how many miles I drive in my car, how much oil I use in my house and how much electricity I use in the house and I like set this goal last year to try I try to really reduce that. And so I’m doing all these crazy things like, put my clothes out to dry in line and stuff like that. Try not to drive my car so much, but my family thinks is pretty funny.

Max Branstetter 35:13
Exactly. Are you like extra diligent with it? Or you won’t you won’t let anybody drive without checking it.

Alex Van Alen 35:18
I don’t I try not to incorporate my family too much into it, because I know it’ll bug them. Come along for the ride a little bit. But now I just sort of keep it to myself.

Max Branstetter 35:26
What about pet peeves? What’s something that just grinds your gears a little bit?

Alex Van Alen 35:32
Yeah, it’s, I’m definitely not type a I don’t think anyone would call me type A but one thing that drives me crazy is you know, when your windows are all fogged up in your car, and oh, yeah, my kids are like, take their hand and use it to clear the fog off the window. And of course, that comes back to bite you. Ellie’s hand marks and everything I deploy from your hand gets all over, like,

Max Branstetter 35:56
oh, man, learn that the hard way in college. There was one time where I don’t know he like stopped at the mall nearby and, I don’t know, bought something and picked up food. It was one of those crazy cold days and it was just like so foggy and so much. I was like so I was like, I don’t want to sit here for 10 minutes while it like tries to default then it’s not going to work. So I just did that and then was like that mark was on the car for car for a long time.

Alex Van Alen 36:17
Yeah, then you gotta you gotta go through the whole process of Windex and get off or whatever. So

Max Branstetter 36:22
yeah, I still still haven’t recovered to this day. Now, but let’s, let’s go from tough ones to actually these might be tough as well. I’m just keeping you on the edge of your seat. But let’s get let’s wrap up with rapid fire q&a. You ready for it? All right. All right, let’s get wild. The town that you’re based in is called Amesbury or Amesbury, Amesbury. Okay. I didn’t know if it was like an old school New England pronunciation. That wasn’t the actual question. The question is, I saw that it’s like is literally on the New Hampshire border? I don’t know if it’s New Hampshire, New Hampshire. I just can’t pronounce anything. So you’re like in the heart of New England? What’s what’s your favorite part of living in the New England area?

Alex Van Alen 37:03
Definitely the ocean. Yeah, I moved up here for the ocean and for boating.

Max Branstetter 37:08
Oh, yeah. Those are nice. Especially in the summertime. Probably Probably a bit cold over the winter. It’s

Alex Van Alen 37:13
a bit cold. The wintertime? Yes. Not the best. But yeah, summertime is phenomenal.

Max Branstetter 37:17
Who would be your dream, a celebrity or athlete ambassador for FlingGolf?

Alex Van Alen 37:23
You know, I think Rob Gronkowski would be phenomenal. He’s just got he’s got the right attitude about it. You know, he’s just, he’s just all about fun, and athleticism. And that’s really what sort of encapsulates playing golf. So yeah, to see him him bombing them out on the golf course would be great.

Max Branstetter 37:41
Yeah, he seems to fit he’s perfect with you know, like fun and camaraderie and athletics. So that’s yeah, he

Alex Van Alen 37:48
doesn’t take himself too seriously. Which, you know, we try not to, but Yeah, he’d be great one.

Max Branstetter 37:52
He’s very marketable. So yeah, maybe maybe, maybe within the next couple years, you’ll it will strike someone up with him. That’d be awesome. How about I confirm with you before the episode, so I knew how to pronounce it. But I’m sure a lot of people think your name is Van Alen, like Van Halen. How often do you get confused to be part of the Van Halen family?

Alex Van Alen 38:12
Yeah, well, my name is Alex Van Alen. My name is Alex Van Alen. But we but you know, I send my, my credit card over or, or my driver’s license. You’re like, oh, Alex Van Halen. Yeah, it’s fun. It’s fun little thing. And I like to think we’re cousins. And maybe we are way back in the old country. Right? Just change the name a little bit, but I’m not sure.

Max Branstetter 38:33
Exactly. It would be interesting to go back and see if it was always pronounced Van Alen or if it changed somewhere along the way. And it was Van Halen or Van Alen, you never know. But in good company there. What is the longest distance that a fling golf driver shot whatever you want to call it has been recorded.

Alex Van Alen 38:54
The longest recorded one was 252 yards and that’s we had a competition back in 2019. It was defenseman of a professional lacrosse defenseman named Sean Lawton. And he’s probably like 6’4″, 220 or something like that. And he just crushed it too. So 252 As long as we were pretty sure other people have done it longer, but we’ve never actually officially recorded it longer.

Max Branstetter 39:16
That’s some serious strength Fling there. And then last one, you might be the only person I’ve ever spoken to that has lived in the rainforests for more than like, you know, two hour tour. So what is your best tip for actually living in the rainforest?

Alex Van Alen 39:34
Best tip I got over there was or before I left was you know, don’t you can’t wear boots in the rainforest. You just got to go full on I just had running shoes and just stuff you can take off and on regularly and, and they’re gonna everything’s gonna get soaking wet. So you might as well almost not even have them, but they also helped with keeping some leeches off your feet. Okay, plenty of those.

Max Branstetter 39:58
Oh my god, that’s important, but that else. Okay, so I didn’t lie just thought of this though. Is someone like most people that hates being soaking wet? How do you like mentally just deal with it, you know, raining and being wet so often?

Alex Van Alen 40:13
Yeah, I guess you just don’t have any choice

Max Branstetter 40:17
to deal with

Alex Van Alen 40:19
no point in, you know, in being bummed about it because it’s just gonna be wet. It’s gonna rain all the time and the way that you know, the Penan tribe that I was with and the others, they just barely wear any clothes because it’s, it’s warm enough. And if you just have a loincloth on, it’s not much to get wet. So I did not wear a loincloth but I you know, just in shorts and a T-shirt and took off the T-shirt a lot. But there’s no point just having wet stuff on you all the time.

Max Branstetter 40:45
I might have to adopt that just not wearing much. Good way. Good way to go about life. But Alex, thank you so much. This has been absolutely fantastic and fascinating and all for all things Flynn golf and everything your story and beyond. Thanks for coming on. And where’s the best place for people to learn more and try out FlingGolf and if they want to connect with you online?

Alex Van Alen 41:07
Yeah, absolutely. You know, FlingGolf.com to get to then all of our all of our social media is @FlingGolf. So that’s a good place for people to check it out. If you’re on Facebook, we have a FlingGolf Players group, which is a really fun place to check out, see what the players are doing and join in and ask questions. So that’s just called FlingGolf Players

Max Branstetter 41:25
2 Gs, I think you can incorporate that into your marketing as well. But perfect. Last thing, Final Thoughts stage is yours. It could be a quote, it could be just kind of words of wisdom to leave us with whatever you want. Send us home here.

Alex Van Alen 41:37
I think for any anybody listening anybody you know, wants to be an entrepreneurs, you know, you don’t have to be I was not an A student. I was definitely C student. You know, it’s more about persistence and willing willingness to jump in. start swimming and see what happens. You know, have some faith and see what happens and keep it going.

Max Branstetter 41:57
Well, Alex, I give you an A+ for the interview, and for FlingGolf. Thank you so much for coming on the show, sharing your Fling-tastic story, and all that you do. And thank you, Wild Listeners, for tuning in to another episode. If you want to hear more Wild stories like this one, make sure to follow the Wild Business Growth Podcast on your favorite app and tell a friend about the podcast and then Fling it up with them do some Flinging, some FlingGolfing. You can also find us on Goodpods where there are some good pods. And for any help with podcast production, you can learn more at MaxPodcasting.com and sign up for free for the Podcasting to the Max newsletter. That’s at MaxPodcasting.com/Newsletter. Until next time, let your business Run Wild…Bring on the Bongos!!