Full Transcript – Melinda Emerson – Wild Business Growth Podcast #205

This is the full transcript for Episode #205 of the Wild Business Growth Podcast featuring Melinda Emerson – SmallBizLady, America’s #1 Small Business Expert. You can listen to the interview and learn more here. Please note: this transcript is not 100% accurate.

Melinda Emerson 0:00
In business, you never lose. You either win or you learn.

Max Branstetter 0:18
Hello, hello. Hello. Welcome back to the Wild Business Growth Podcast. This is your place to hear from a new entrepreneur every single Wednesday morning who’s turning wild ideas into wild growth. I’m your host, Max Branstetter, Founder and Podcast Producer at MaxPodcasting. And you can email me at to save time with your high-quality podcast. This is episode 200 and FiVER, and today’s guest is Melinda Emerson, aka the SmallBizLady Melinda is America’s #1 small business expert. She has loads and loads of experience running small businesses starting small businesses selling small businesses advising small businesses. That’s a lot of tough to say. But point is, Melinda knows a ton about small business. And in this interview, we talk all stages of small business including coming up with the idea for your business, growing it scaling it, how it’s gonna kind of mean the same thing, as well as exiting it or passing it down to the next generation. It is the SmallBizLady. Enjoy the show.

Already, we are here with Melinda Emerson, aka the SmallBizLady herself, America’s #1 small business expert, Melinda, so excited to talk to you today. Thanks so much for joining How you doing?

Melinda Emerson 1:50
Good. I’m good. I’m happy to be here. Of course.

Max Branstetter 1:53
That’s good. Because if you weren’t, that would definitely be getting off on the wrong foot. I would I’m so sorry. It is. I literally made a foot reference right away. I’m so sorry, Melinda, we were just talking off record about your broken foot. And here we are. And I’m throwing it in your face you can you feel free to sign off right away.

Melinda Emerson 2:10
No worries, everybody has hit me with all kinds of foot jokes as it happened. So it’s all good.

Max Branstetter 2:16
And that one was I mean, I’m usually very intentional with my jokes, but that one was unintentional. So anyway, let’s get this on the right foot, or left foot whichever one’s better. Melinda. So SmallBizLady, we’re going to talk about all different phases of growing your small business. So at the early phase, the established phase, even even as you’re looking towards an exit. But before we do that, you got your dream job at age 23. And within a couple years realize that it is actually wasn’t my dream job after all. Can you can you share what happened there?

Melinda Emerson 2:49
Well, you know, it’s the age old story, you got to be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it right. Yeah. So I Oh, when I graduated from college with a journalism degree in broadcast journalism degree from Virginia Tech, I was like, I want to work in top market television, I want to work in a top five market. And I got there my second job out of college in the business, I got a job here in the Philadelphia area. I worked for NBC 10. And I also worked for 6 ABC. And what I realized was that what I thought that job was, or what I thought how I thought I would feel about doing that job was very different when I was doing that job. It just wasn’t that important. It just wasn’t that meaningful. I mean, people only watch the news, honestly, for the weather in the sports. For me, it was like writing stories about murders and fires drained my soul. And I was like, I knew that I was put on this earth to do more than that. No shade to my brother in that still working in TV news, but it was not my jam. And I had to get out of there. And I you know, exited stage left. I was like I gotta figure out something else to do. So a year before I quit my job, I started working on my business. I started working part time for business like the one I wanted to start two days a week like so my two off days, I worked another job. So I could learn how to run a production company, which is the business that I first started. And, you know, one day somebody got on my nerves, you know, in the middle of February sweeps and I was like, I’m out. And people thought I was insane. Because a I was making a whole lot of money. Be You know, people work their whole careers to get to market for television. But see, I worked with people that I didn’t even like or respect and I was like, I gotta get out of here. I’m gonna be the big story on actually. So I left.

Max Branstetter 4:45
I remember when I was younger my dad used the term bad news to describe the news because so many stories are negative and it’s it’s overwhelming as a viewer. I can only imagine what it’s like actually working there and having to come up with these stories and read these stories and Yeah, it’s there’s just so much negativity there. So I don’t blame me for getting out quick, how’d your coworkers and friends and family react when it was, you know, in the grand scheme of things such a short timeframe only a couple years from you, quote unquote, landing your dream job to, quote unquote, exiting your dream job?

Melinda Emerson 5:16
Well, you know, there were people that were very fearful for me, you know, I mean, I remember this conversation I had with my dad, and he’d be like, Are you sure this is what you want to do? And I’m like, That he I can go back into a newsroom. At that point. I had been in three, and they were all progressively worse. And I was like, Yeah, I can’t, I cannot do this. I believe God has a bigger plan for me. And so he was like, alright, you know, if this is what you want, you know, he always had this mentality of, if you like it, I love it, you know, so. So, you know, he and my mom were like, okay, you know, you just bought your house, like, what do you do it? You know, but it worked out. I mean, I moved my kid brother in with me, he became my tenant and paid half my rent. I took out a home equity loan, I paid off every bill I had even my car, like I paid off everything. So I got myself down to what I call bare bones, bills. You know, electric, water, mortgage, cell phone, you know, gasoline in the car. That was it, you know, so, and that’s how I was able to build my business. I mean, I consider myself a spare room. tycoon, you know, because I built my whole business from my basement. And, you know, eventually became a million dollar brand. And so for me, you know, it was a lot of work. It didn’t it, it was a very circuitous route, because I started out doing video production. Then eventually, when the technology was changing, we realized everybody was using our videos on websites. So then we were like, well, we better start building websites, too. So then it was like, Okay, we’re doing videos, we’re doing websites. But it was really interesting, in 2005. So I don’t know how young you are. But you look a little younger than me.

Max Branstetter 7:06
You take that back.

Melinda Emerson 7:09
You get to your time machine with me go back to 2005. I was married at the time. We got pregnant with my son, and I ended up on bed rest for six months. And 2005 Wi-Fi was not in everybody’s house. So wasn’t like I could just take a laptop home and keep working. No, I was just at home. That’s what. That’s what I was. I was at home. I was going to the doctor three times a week getting testing done. They thought my child had a heart condition like it was. It was probably like the most stressful time in my life. It was also the first time I had ever stopped, like I had been on go every day. For years. I was a horrible workaholic. I used to work 1012 hours a day. And I made everybody that work for me work like that, you know, so I honestly believe God made me get pregnant so that he could stop me and my evil empire, you know, and so it was like, Okay, once I got home, then I really started to reflect on how I ran my business, and all of the expensive mistakes we had made. And then I realized while I was at home that I had made the number one mistake, you can make a business, I built a business that couldn’t run without me. I hadn’t built processes and systems for lead generation and for sales. And because I was the Rainmaker, and when I wasn’t there, there was no rain, right? So it for me, it was the scary. I mean, the year that I had my son, we almost lost everything, because my husband worked full time in my business too. So it was like our whole family revenue was coming from this business. And suddenly, I’m pulled out of the business with a serious health emergency, something that I never would have thought of I was 32 years old, like it wasn’t like I was, you know, 45 trying to have my first kid I was like, well within the window of when people should be able to have kids safely. But that’s not what happened for me. And so, in that time, I wrote down all these notes and thought about all the expensive lessons I learned. And then I thought about the other lessons that other people that I knew had gone through. And the bones of that eventually became my best selling book become your own boss and 12 months, because what I figured out was that I would have run my business better if I had had better advice. But back then, again, getting your time machine with me and go back to 2005 There was nobody in mainstream media giving people small business information. Literally it was like Suze Orman and Jean Chatzky. Were giving people financial information about you know, 401(k)s and all this kind of stuff, but there’s nothing else. There was nothing out here that if you had an idea somebody had a roadmap for you to win in bed Since and I said, Okay, well, you know what? I’m going to be that lady like, I am going to put myself in charge of ending small business failure. And I’m going to start by writing down every stupid lesson I learned. I mean, I think the reason why my book has been so successful, and been in print for the last 12 years, it’s in the third edition now from Simon & Schuster, is because I’m not the hero at the end of every story, I tell the truth about some dumb stuff that I did. And I think people appreciate the fact that I was that transparent to be like, Yeah, this was some dumb stuff. Let me tell you what happened. But you know, I, but I think that what I learned from that, I think the biggest benefit for me starting my first business at 26, was that I knew I didn’t know anything about business, right? I knew I mean, I had a journalism degree, I didn’t know I didn’t even know how to use Excel. Right? So back then, everybody didn’t have to use Microsoft Office, I knew how to use the broadcast new software that we use at work, but I didn’t know

Max Branstetter 11:02
what to do. I mean, everybody knows how to use a broadcast new software.

Melinda Emerson 11:07
But I’m saying like they didn’t make everybody learn office, like I didn’t know how to use PowerPoint. I actually, I’m still bad at it. Truth be told. But the point is, is that for me, I had to learn everything, like I had to start at, you know, I knew how to tell great stories. But I didn’t know how to run a business. And so I turned myself into a reporter, if you will, of running a business, I took a course every single year, I have been in business probably out of my 23 years, I’ve been in business, I’ve taken courses 16 or 17 years, I became a voracious reader of other people’s business books. Like I still believe that one of the best business books ever written was E-Myth by Michael E. Gerber. But I have a library of books. I have a library of audibles on best business practices. And the reason why is because success leaves clues everywhere. All you have to do is read about somebody else’s business success or strategy that work bearing in mind that by the time they’re telling you about it, it might be too old for you to do but then there’s other people you know, like, like Jeff Walker’s book Launch, he launched he put it out in 2014 He put out a newer edition a year or so ago. Both of those books are good. I just think that you have to understand that you have to work on your own business skills, your your leadership skills, your negotiation skills, certainly your marketing and sales skills, right you know, especially because so much has changed. So much has changed even in the last 10 years in terms of sales and marketing and the fact that social media is now the number one sales channel I mean, there’s just so much that has changed and and you had to change with it. Hey, now we all better be doing TikTok right because TikTok is now the fastest growing social media platform

Max Branstetter 13:03
Melinda I have to stop you right there. You do not want to see me dancing. Now.

Melinda Emerson 13:05
Listen, there’s a lot more going on on TikTok other than people dancing. Now. There’s plenty of people doing that. But But TikTok University, there’s people out here really selling information really generating leads and sales. And you better be there to just saying

Max Branstetter 13:22
I’ll start stretching just in case.

Melinda Emerson 13:26
I did do one dance. I have to tell you. On my birthday last year, I did a dance on TikTok. And you know, I didn’t do hardcore, but I did a dance to 50 Cent’s “Go shorty. It’s your birthday.” And it was like, it went viral. I mean, it was crazy. Like people. We posted it on Instagram, and we posted on TikTok and probably top video ever. But that’s it. There’s no more dancing, you won’t find no more dancing. Oh, my TikTok I’m just I’m just saying you won’t. But on my birthday, I had to give it to him. Okay, I had to.

Max Branstetter 14:07
So you alluded to business skills and business skills. And in first of all, thank you for for tracking these things and sharing out your advice and your wins. And in the dumb stuff, as you say. I mean, I mean, sometimes I think people gravitate to the dumb stuff even more than the positive stuff. Because we all make make dumb choices and mistakes as business owners. But I would love to talk about growing your small business. There’s kind of the earlier launch phase. There’s like a couple years after that, or around that timeframe when you start to be established and consistent. And then there’s the mature or end of life for business phase where you’re thinking about exit or kind of how you know how someone’s going to take the torch for me. So what is the number one thing a new small business owner should keep in mind when they’re, you know, launching and shouting from the roof stops, hey, I have a new business.

Melinda Emerson 15:02
I think the number one thing that a new small business owner needs to keep in mind is who is their niche customer? I think a lot of times people get out here, and they chase anybody that they think has money, or they chase this thing or that thing, or Oh, I heard people selling on Amazon. No, you need to focus on your customer, and what your customer needs and wants. And if you focus on your customer, if you position your business, and obviously I’m speaking of professional service businesses, but this is relevant to product based businesses to if you position yourself as a service to your customers, that’s how you’ll win. You know, if you view sales as helping, and that is manipulating and sleazy hard sales tactics, all this stuff? No, no, no. If you really think about, you know, how are you going to help your customer win? That is how you win. You know, you want to create Win Win scenarios. But it’s very hard. I mean, every small business has two things. And there’s limited time and limited resources, right. So you have to pick a marketing target that you can actually hit, which is why niche marketing is so effective. And frankly, the more niche you are, the more you can charge. Right? And I tell people all the time, who makes more money, your cardiologist or your primary care physician, cardiologist, I know drive Lamborghinis, right, you know, so I think you want to figure out how you can become the cardiologist for whatever it is that you do.

Max Branstetter 16:40
And by the way, I’m loving the the alliteration. I think you had a Bare Bones Bills earlier. And then with the rhymes, you had Spare Room Tycoon. I’m literally taking notes of these because I’m such a fan of rhymes and alliteration, corniness and, and analogies. But anyway, I think that’s so spot on. I think the more focused you are, that’s when people know what you do. And and when to refer people to you. We had a past guest who goes by the King of Clarity, who was just basically destroying ups because on UPS vans, they say, worldwide services. Like if somebody says they provide worldwide service it like What’s that even mean? But if you’re super focused, and they know that, hey, you know, like we deliver in a five mile radius or something. We deliver your toiletries, and

Melinda Emerson 17:36
they said worldwide logistics like that would at least give you some context of what they’re even talking about.

Max Branstetter 17:42
Yeah, exactly. So the more focus that’s fantastic. In terms of actually communicating, whether it be on social media or whatever marketing channel you’re using, in terms of communicating to your customers in keeping the focus on value to your customers, not the sleazy sales stuff. How what does that actually look like when it comes to you know, crafting messaging?

Melinda Emerson 18:04
Well, again, I goes back to when you really know your customer, you need to craft messaging that is almost like you’re having a conversation with them about the conversation they’re having in their head. Like when you really know your customer. That’s when you you can craft a message and they’re like, man, that I need her right. I need that course I need that book. I need that. That widget, whatever. When you can really be like, Girl, I know you are, you know, sitting at your desk, and you are tired of your boss undervaluing you, you know, you’re meant to do more. I can help you. Have you always had an idea to start a business? Well, I’m the queen of helping people get free from a job. Come see me. I’d love to teach you about how to become your own boss. Right?

Max Branstetter 19:07
That was really cool. Like, I’m ready to do business. I’m pumped up now. It’s really good.

Melinda Emerson 19:14
But again, it’s like I know who my customer is. My customer is a professional woman 30 to 55 sitting in corporate America, they may be having a business idea. They might even have a side hustle. But they’re not making enough money to leave that job yet because they still need those health benefits for themselves and their family or their kids. I know who she is. I know how she feels because I was once her I know exactly how she feels overworking for some unappreciative jerk off, boss. You know, come on. I mean, I know exactly who this woman is. I know what her struggle is. I know she’s extraordinarily talented. Maybe she’s a chef. Maybe she makes jewelry, maybe she’s got an idea to create a logistics business. Maybe she’s looking at the supply chain inside her company and going. Our company outsources that, I wonder if I could create a business, they would outsource it to me. I mean, there’s people sitting here looking at this stuff going, but they don’t know how they have ideas, but they don’t know how executing a small business is hard. And the first few years of a business, your business owns you, you know, own your business, you know, and so you don’t start owning your business till maybe like three year four, right? Those first three years, forget about it. I mean, it’s hard. It’s like when you’re we don’t know if you’re a parent. But when you first have a baby, and like, you got to do everything for this baby ventually the baby walks, you’re like, okay, great, then you’re like, Is the baby gonna talk? Right? Then the baby talks? Then you’re like, Can I leave them for five minutes and take a shower without like, something bad happening? Yeah, obviously, you got to, you got to still watch the baby, you got to make sure the baby’s okay, babies in a safe environment, playpen, whatever, right, you got to have gates up. Because kids run away, you know, it means all this stuff. So again, your business is the same way, you got all this stuff, you got to figure out, you got to figure out who your real paying customer is versus who you think it’s gonna be. And then you got to figure out your price point, all this kind of stuff. So there’s a lot of upfront hypothesis testing, test messaging, test marketing materials, I mean, all kinds of stuff. It’s a lot of work. But it’s like by year four, you know, you’d be like drinking champagne winged Thursday, you know, you could start winning then. But you got to get there. And so many people flame out by year five, you know, so it’s like it, some people flame out by here too, because they had to have big business idea in the first place. But a lot of people flame out by year five.

Max Branstetter 21:59
So once that baby is walking on their own and talking on their own, and you know, doing their own taxes, you know, 401(k) all that once, once your business is established, so let’s say in I have no idea of the stats to back this up. But let’s go with the example of year four, year five, once it’s, you know, definitely more established than a brand new business. What is the number one mistake or as you said, dumping, you see small business owners do that hurts the sustainable life of that business over the years?

Melinda Emerson 22:35
Well, when you get to year four or five, that’s when you start trying to figure out how to scale? Right? How can you get more money for less work? Or how can you be more strategic? How can you get longer term contracts? You know, you’ve got to figure out how can we get more revenue in here? How can we productize what we do? Do we have a methodology? Do we have systems? You know, that’s when you really start tweaking that kind of stuff? And you start looking at profitability? What are your most profitable products, when is your most profitable time a year? Like you can like you have data now. So you can kind of look at the data sets about your own business and then be like, Okay, how are we going to scale? Or what are we going to stop doing? What are we going to do more of? Is it time to bring on a sales team versus a sales person? Right? So you so you kind of looking at all these things? And then you got to figure out how you’re gonna pay for it? Are you going to be able to pay for it with existing sales coming in? Or is this the time you’re now going to go borrow some money to grow your business? Right? So there’s a lot of strategic decisions that have to be made. I’m a big fan of people at your four or five hiring coaches. Like to really have a have a third party, look at your business from the outside, you know, but again, be careful about who you hire as a coach, right? You can’t hire somebody who’s just one step ahead of you, right? You need to hire somebody who’s grown a business sold a business so that they can help you. Right, you know, so you need to make sure that you can verify their credentials on more than just Instagram, right. And their Bentley that they rented to take pictures in front of that is not the right coach for you. You know,

Max Branstetter 24:09
how do you know you must you must have saw me taking pictures the other weekend?

Melinda Emerson 24:13
I know people can rent planes and Bentley’s let’s just say that it’s ridiculous.

Max Branstetter 24:16
We actually driving on the highway the other day, and we literally it was I don’t remember what brand it was, but it was a you know, really expensive sports car like that. And there were literally people doing a photo shoot outside in front of it. And I was like, I don’t like people who actually own those cars. I don’t think they would be doing a photoshoot in front of that dealership.

Melinda Emerson 24:36
Exactly. But that’s my whole point. And what’s what’s really sad now is that you know, my business has been corrupted by these people who basically sell you their lifestyle and they have no content and no information. And so people are like, I want to live like her. I want to wear those kinds of clothes. I want to have a Bentley. I want to you know travel with a little chihuahua. On a private plane, you know, it’s like, Listen, I have never shown somebody the inside of my home, I’ve never posed outside in front of my car. Because if the reason why you want to listen to me, is because of what you think I have versus what you think I know, you are not the right client for me. I mean, but there’s a whole generation of people chasing these people because of their lifestyle, who don’t even know anything that can help you. But they’re really good motivators are really good salespeople, and they fleece people out of money all the time, and the people who coach with them don’t grow. You know, it’s crazy.

Max Branstetter 25:36
What’s the most effective way that you’ve seen to scale a business? Oh, man,

Melinda Emerson 25:41
I mean, there’s a lot of ways to do it. Certainly, you can, you know, hire a sales team and just ramp up your marketing, you can start buying a bunch of, you know, Facebook ads and stuff, and really drive, drive leads drive traffic, you can create a high end offer. So you can, you know, create a private club kind of part of your business, and get people to, you know, be part of your private, you know, group coaching program, you can acquire a competitor, you know, and grow your business, that way, you can start branching out into a new market, let’s say, if you work in the commercial sector, you can start selling in the government sector. I mean, there’s, I mean, endless ways to scale a business. But the thing is, is that you got to make sure your main business is solid before you trying to scale anything. You know, the only way you can scale a business is if you document your processes and systems, if you have a team and make sure you got the right team. And if you really understand what your profitability is, and what your most profitable lines of service or products are. And once you understand that, then you can figure out how can we get more of this? How can we sell more of this? And is there a new line of business and it’s time for us to open up?

Max Branstetter 26:49
And you’re someone who’s I mean, you mentioned at the start, like, you’ve essentially documented like, your whole small business journey, and you’ve turned it into books and your content. And like, as someone who’s like a new entrepreneur, small business owner, it’s kind of intimidating to think about like, wait a second, you know, so much goes into every decision, or like, there’s, there’s so much on my plate already. You want me to, to document the processes, processes as well, I never know what processes or processes. You want me to document all this stuff as well, just so you know, to smooth things out in the future? What’s that look like?

Melinda Emerson 27:22
Yes? Well, you really have to look at your tasks like so one of the biggest challenges that small businesses have is being able to separate what I call queen bee work from worker bee work, right? So if your time is billable, at $250 an hour, why in the hell would you ever enter your own data into QuickBooks? Like why would you do that? When that’s as tasks, you can farm out for 35 to $45 an hour? Like why would you ever do that? Especially if you don’t like accounting, and you’re not good at a no background? Doing it? It’s like, don’t do that, you know, I mean, so I think part of it is really documenting your tasks, documenting daily tasks, weekly tasks, monthly tasks, quarterly tasks, and then figuring out who really needs to do those, you know, because you’re not going to be able to hire people and train people. If you don’t have a documented system, how will they know how your T shirt goes in the box with the tissue paper, and two pieces of candy and the sticker overtop of the tissue paper to go in them in the shipping? How do your shipping labels look on the outside of your packages, nobody will know that if it’s in your head, right? You got to document it, you got to write it down. And it’s painful to do, especially if you’ve been winging it every day. But that it doesn’t work like that. I promise you, when you get hired at Old Navy, they show you how to fold the shirts and make them look nice and neat in the set. How do they fold the shirts at your business? Right? Like, where’s your training? Where’s your tool? I mean, a lot of the biggest mistake that I see business owners make is they hire people, and they basically throw on the keys and say good luck. There’s no onboarding, there’s not a lot of training. We expect people to perform at a high level with no training, which is madness, right? You know, so you need to make sure that you even your interns, what is it that you want them to do? What are their deliverables? What are their what is their execution steps, right? You know, so you want to make sure that you have processes and systems to take work off for you. Human reason why you want to document stuff is because as the business owner, you need to be focused on your most high valued activities. And let me tell you, your most high value activity is customer acquisition and customer retention. That’s it. That’s what you need to be spending your time doing. The rest of this stuff is minutia and you need to hire some people to handle it. Manouche, right, but your job is to get customers and keep customers. That’s your job as a business owner,

Max Branstetter 30:07
you framed it perfectly. Like if you think of the documenting piece and setting up these processes, slashes, and, and systems. If you think of that as rewarding your future self and rewarding your future business in your future team, I think as much easier to stomach, all right, it’s worth, you know, the time it takes to do this, you know, add more to my plate right now just to you know, track all this stuff than the other way around. Because you’re right people. Nobody knows how to do you know, stuff that’s super specific to your company coming in from another company or whatever they’re doing before. So that’s incredibly helpful. One of my big I have, you know, a love hate relationship with processes and systems, because I know they’re essential. I know, they’re super valuable when you’re expanding your team bringing on new people. But I also like, I feel like there’s a fine line, like, at a certain point, businesses, especially if seen in larger business, and kind of the corporate world, there can be so much process and so much system that it like, literally slows everything down, because there’s so much training and so like, there’s so many steps just to get one thing done. What’s your advice for setting up these processes and systems, but not going like too crazy over the top to the point that someone’s overwhelmed, because there’s so much I got to read and do just, you know, take a sip of water basically?

Melinda Emerson 31:30
Well, the cool thing is that there’s so much technology that can help you, there’s so much marketing automation software, CRM software, email marketing software, though, there’s a lot of stuff that it’s like, uh, once you set it up, it works right, you know, so it’s a lot of work to set up a sales funnel. But once it’s set up to Ching Ching, it can start making you money once you test it and make sure it all works, right. So I think things like following up on invoices, you automate that stuff through your software, like reaching out to customers, you can do that. I mean, I’m a big fan of personal reach outs, I don’t believe in automated software as it relates to, you know, sending out mass blanket emails to people, you know, on LinkedIn, and stuff like all these spam emails, you get, those don’t sell crap, as far as I’m concerned. But I think that you have to use technology strategically. But there’s an app for that. I mean, there is there is an app for everything you’re trying to

Max Branstetter 32:34
wait, that’s it wasn’t an Apple commercial.

Melinda Emerson 32:37
There’s an app, there’s an app for that. I mean, so you want to make sure that you are leveraging technology. So once you document your processes and systems, then you go back to your list and be like, Okay, what can we be using software for? And in this case, it might make sense to hire someone who is a CIO, a digital transformation expert, that could be like, hey, what software should we use? Should we be using Asana, you know, project management software? Well, somebody’s got to train everybody on Asana, you can’t just buy it. Yeah, make sure everybody knows how to use it, thus, then you can make everybody use it, right. So you got to make sure that you have an implementer. Like, you don’t just buy stuff, but that you train everybody on how to use it. And once everybody’s using it, it’ll be great. Or a CRM system is another one, you know, we actually use pipe drive in my company. And it’s like, I make everybody go on pipe drives website, look at the training tutorial videos and stuff, so that you know how to use it, right, because I go in there once a week and check and make sure you’re doing it. You want to make sure that everybody knows how to use it, you touch a customer that’s got to get documented so that we know, we want to build an archive on our customers, we want to make sure we know everything everybody in our company knows about that customer, right? So we document that stuff. And all of that stuff is really really really really important. calendaring, you know, all of that stuff, whether you use it Calendly, which I don’t like that software, but I actually like another software called mix, Max, because it’s easier for me to just go in my email give you three options. You click one, it goes on my calendar, it goes on your calendar. Calendly is like you could accidentally double booked yourself because you’re not looking at your own calendar when you use it makes me a little nuts.

Max Branstetter 34:17
Well, this is why we’re double booked for this interview. So

Melinda Emerson 34:21
but my point is, is that you need to be looking at all the software options that are going to save you time, money, but you got to make sure your folks are trained on it. Don’t just buy software and be paying for it every month. nobody’s using it. That’s crazy

Max Branstetter 34:35
waste of money. And to skip probably 10, 20, 30,40, 50 years, which I typically do as a podcast host that’s probably a great great trade, but I want to hit on the later stages of your company or at least your experience in your company. So if you’re kind of getting towards that stage where you know what I’m I’m ready to fully retire or move into an advisory rule or advisory role, and you’ve had a great run for, you know, years and years of the successful business. There’s tons of different possibilities from an exit standpoint, you know, maybe it’s a family business and you pass it down, maybe it’s, you’re selling the business to somebody, maybe, you know, maybe if it’s big scale, you’re doing the IPO route, or acquisition. How do you go about deciding what’s best for your company?

Melinda Emerson 35:25
Well, I think it’s not about what’s best for your company, it’s about what’s going to be best for you. Right? So I think you got to figure out as a bit and it’s funny that you asked me this question, because this is something I’ve been working on. So

Max Branstetter 35:37
I knew me beforehand asked you this?

Melinda Emerson 35:40
Well, I mean, I think you have to think about realistically, how much longer do you want to work? Like, you know, how much longer do you want to drive the bus in your business? And then you got to say, Okay, do I have a business that I can sell, because a lot of times, I’ve been talking to a lot of consultants in this space, one of my good buddies is John Warrillow, who wrote this great book called The Art of Selling Your business. And John talks about how there’s a whole lot of people think they have a business, they can sell that they can’t, because their business is way too reliant on them. They haven’t built a business that they could actually walk away from, they are their whole business, they have all the relationships with the customers, everybody that calls on the phone wants to talk to them, you know, that kind of stuff is bad. The other thing you got to think about is if you think you want to sell your business, you need to be planning and prepping for that five years before you think you might want to do that. Because there’s things you have to have right, like audited financial statements for five years, there’s stuff you have to have, you need to look at your pipeline, you got to look at your long term contracts, do you have something that you can sell? You know, what are the risks to your business? You’ve got to look and see, you know, is your industry changing? Is your industry growing? Or is it shrinking? Right? You know, then you got to say, Okay, once you decide, alright, I’m going to sell, then you’re like, sell to who? Am I going to sell it to my children? Am I going to turn it into an ESOP and let my employees have it? Am I going to sell it to a competitor? Am I going to try to sell it to a fortune 1000? You know, like, who am I? Who is it that I’m trying to sell this thing to? Do I care who I sell it to? Right? You know, I think what you care about is the amount of money that you end up in your pocket. But there’s all kinds of ways you can sell it, you can sell it for a straight cash transaction, you can do an earn out earn outs are scary, but you can do an earn out, particularly if you’re selling to your kids or your family or something like that, you, you might not clobber them over the head to get all your money at first, you know, but you have to make sure that you get what you need out of your business. And you have to make sure that all of your personal expenses that you run through your business, that you’re going to make enough money to not run those through your business anymore. Right. So those are lots of things you got to think about. But I think that there are checklists and things out here that you have to think about that will help you evaluate where you are, is whether what work you have to do in your business, to step out to step out of your business, you know, what kind of assets do you have? What kind of debt do you have, you know, there’s so many things that go into it. But you need to be planning for it three to five years, easy before you make any transition. And then you’ve got to be serious about the transition. I’ve seen people sabotage transitions, because they want to turn it in over to their kids, but they’re still micromanaging everything, they don’t really turn it over. Or they just want to get paid and leave, and they don’t want to help at all with the transition. You know, people don’t like that either. You know, so you gotta have to, you have to have some kind of balance, but you have to know who you are. And if you’re really ready to retire, are you really ready to walk away? I mean, I think that’s the thing, and how do you want to do it? You want to do it with a bunch of money in the backseat? Like, how you want to do it? And do you even have something that you can sell? I think a lot of people think their businesses are way more valuable than they are, you know, you’ve got to go about getting a formal valuation of your business, you know, because usually businesses sell for some multiple of EBIT da, which is you know, earnings before taxes, right? So, you know, you really have to figure out, are you going to get three times four times five times EBITDA, you know, I’ve seen people get 10 times even though but that didn’t happen a lot. You know, a lot of times people get a lot less than they think they’re gonna get. So I think that it’s really important for you to know your numbers, you know, your margins, know your pipeline. I mean, there’s a lot of stuff that goes into, you know, making a transition out of a business if that’s what you think you want to do.

Max Branstetter 39:40
You got to know your numbers, and you got to know if podcasting is right for you. Oh, great segue Max. If you are interested in this is a corniest one Yeah, I’m just rolling with it. I’m not editing this at all. But if you think podcasting might be a good fit for you and your business or or maybe even your personal brand, go to MaxPodcasting.com Sign up for the Podcasting to the Max newsletter that will quickly very very soon become your go to place for podcasting tips, podcasting insights on the hosting and production side, as well as behind the scene stories and behind the scenes scenes from the Wild Business Growth Podcast. That is the Podcasting to the Max newsletter all at MaxPodcasting.com. Now let’s transition to to a shout out of the wild Business Week, variety weekly. So speaking of transition, let’s transition to a fan favorite segment called the Wild Business Shoutout of the Week

Wild Business Shoutout of the week. Okay,

thank you. It’s inspired by into club. Wild Business Shoutout of the Week, this is where we talk about it a creative marketing or Buzz marketing is really creative approach that’s outside of the box that that we’ve seen. And Tony Robbins, obviously huge name, I would venture like even maybe six month old babies know about him. He’s pretty much everywhere. But what is something that Tony did recently that caught your attention?

Melinda Emerson 41:10
So last week, Tony Robbins did a free five day challenge. I have never, in all my years in business seen Tony Robbins do some free like ever. Ever, ever, ever. Never right? I’ve never seen it. He did a five day challenge with his partner Dean. And they were promoting a new program specifically for people who want to get in the self help self education market. And they called it project next. But I mean, it was like an all star. You know, obviously Tony had to kick it off, right? Because Tony Robbins is like, and it’s funny because I’ve actually never seen him live before. And it’s weird that I haven’t seen him live but I’ve never seen him live and I got a chance to watch him and he really is the master of it. It was like it was like sitting at the feet of like the great elbow of our whole industry. And and he and he’s amazing. But then after he and Dean did their thing. Then they just had this like parade all stars come behind them. I mean, Russell Brunson. Brendon Burchard, Lisa Nichols. I mean, it was like, watching the A-Team right me it was like it was like Super Friends. And it was free. I mean, literally, it was free. They had a $47 VIP upgrade. I mean, it was like, I was like, What is going on? I was like, why would Tony Robbins offer something so inexpensive. And then at the end, they did their offer. And I was waiting for it. Because I was like, I was like, there’s an offer. At the end of this. I know, there’s an offer. And their offer was only 997. Like 1000 bucks to work with them. And I was like, Is this April Fool’s Day Am I being Punk’d? Like what is going on. But what I realized was, later on, they had 900,000 people sign up for their free five day thing. And if you just do simple math, even if 400,000 People did the VIP upgrade, they made 20 million before they even opened the cart for their offer. Third day, they open their cart mean, they had Matthew McConaughey that day, it was like really crazy. Like,

Max Branstetter 43:33
I think that’s the real secret to success, successful run.

Melinda Emerson 43:38
But it wasn’t just them. It was they had built this program. They did such a great job of welcoming people and making people feel special. I mean, part of the reason why I did it, I just was almost like Funnel Hacking. Like I just wanted to see what their what their landing pages and what their offer was. Because I’m a nerd, you know, I really wanted to see that. So, but at the same time, I was like, Tony Robbins doing an offer for $1,000 You gotta be kidding. But it was a volume game. I mean, you think about he had 900,000 people worldwide on a live stream for five days, none are just as good. So even if 10% bought, which you know, more than typically in an offer like that 30% of the people will buy. So I was just doing the math going holy macaroni, like, I was really impressed. I was really impressed.

Max Branstetter 44:31
It’s a crazy time. I mean, it’s a really, really good time as a customer slash consumer. That so much like a crazy amount of value is given away these days for free. And obviously there’s you know, like the example you talked about, you know, a lot of times if it’s a more extended thing or like a webinar or course or something like there is an offer and there’s there’s always price up you know, premium options tied to it. And that’s how they make money but at like the entry level There’s so much you can learn for free these days. And it’s incredible in like podcasts and in YouTube and like you can there’s, there’s tutorials for everything.

Melinda Emerson 45:10
You can University, what is the number one thing people search for on YouTube? How to do whatever? Yeah,

Max Branstetter 45:17
how to do whatever would be an interesting search. I’m gonna do that right after this, but But you know, it’s, I think it’s really, really clever of them. I mean, did you know by the way, you said you’ve never seen him live. I’ve never seen him live. You

Melinda Emerson 45:31
never seen him live I had been meaning to for years. And if for whatever reason I didn’t, but Tony Robbins is the man. I mean, you can’t even you know, I mean, he’s the undisputed heavyweight champion of this whole thing. And he’s been doing it 45 years, though, and he tells the story. He’s been doing it since he was 17. He was a protege of Jim Rohn. And he says it right. So I’m like, okay, got it.

Max Branstetter 45:56
You know, he’s 6’7″ ? He’s literally a large in life,

Melinda Emerson 46:00
like Clark Kent, but like not Clark Kent. Yeah.

Max Branstetter 46:10
That is a super way to transition to some rapid fire q&a. Let’s wrap up with some rapid fire q&a. You’re ready for it? I’m

Melinda Emerson 46:16
ready. All right.

Max Branstetter 46:18
Let’s go wild. What is it behind the scenes fun fact from working at a newsroom? They think most people would be surprising curious by

Melinda Emerson 46:28
most of the anchors are really short.

Max Branstetter 46:32
We go from Tony Robbins site to short news anchor. That’s great. I’m picturing horse jockeys. Now all of a sudden, I don’t know, Philadelphia, which by the way, my fiancee Dana and I are watching Always Sunny right now. So there’s a lot of Philly on our TVs right now. But what’s your favorite part about living in Philly? Oh, the

Melinda Emerson 46:50
foods, the food. We have the best restaurants on the East Coast. And we’re like a third cheaper than New York City restaurants and our restaurants rival New York City restaurants all day. Any day. Food in Philly is amazing.

Max Branstetter 47:05
Living super close to New York and having lived in New York. That hurts a little bit because yeah, it’s not cheap here. First thing that comes to mind. What’s the restaurant in Philly people should definitely check out

Melinda Emerson 47:14
Tequilas at 16th and Lucas it’s a five star Mexican restaurant. They’ve got 54 types of tequila on the menu if you’re into that salt, but their seafood is amazing. Their crab guacamole. Oh my lord. It’s amazing. So I love to take people there when they come to visit.

Max Branstetter 47:36
That sounds good. I mean, literally just the the name it maybe even the first syllable You had me so? Well, we’ll check it out soon. What is your favorite creative hobby or way to unplug?

Melinda Emerson 47:49
I love to binge watch stuff on Netflix.

Max Branstetter 47:52
What’s your favorite bingeable show right now?

Melinda Emerson 47:54
Ah, gosh. I’m a big Ozark fan.

Max Branstetter 47:58
Amazing. Yeah, we just wrapped it. I’m

Melinda Emerson 48:00
a big Virgin River fan too.

Max Branstetter 48:02
What is your biggest pet peeve could literally be about anything.

Melinda Emerson 48:08
poor customer service.

Max Branstetter 48:10
Last one. You have spoken lectured at hundreds and hundreds of colleges and universities? What’s the coolest college town you’ve ever been to? Blacksburg, VA. Okay, that’s a little bit of bias there. your alma mater, but no. All right. All right. How about other than Blacksburg? what’s your what’s your favorite college town?

Melinda Emerson 48:31
You know what? When I spoke at MIT in Boston, that was really cool. Actually, Cambridge was nice. You know? Like, it’s beautiful there.

Max Branstetter 48:40
It’s a shame they don’t have a good reputation. I mean, MIT are people like a you know, that really committed it and you know, nothing good comes out. Well, Melinda, thank you so much. This has been fantastic and just so much value and value. I mean, really, really appreciate all you do for small businesses and all you give back and your books and we didn’t even talk about it but #SmallBizChat. Fantastic. And so thank you so much for coming on. Where’s the best place? Where’s your favorite place for people to connect with you and and learn from you?

Melinda Emerson 49:09
Oh gosh, well, I would love for people to you follow me @SmallBizLady on all of the social platforms. If you want to come over to my website, you can head over to SmallBizLadyUniversity.com and check out all of our courses and materials. And certainly grab a copy of my book Become Your Own Boss in 12 Months. It’s in its third edition. So check it out.

Max Branstetter 49:31
Perfect times three last thing here FINAL THOUGHTS it could be a quote a line you can dance to your favorite song again. TikTok. No, I’m just gonna whenever you want send us home here.

Melinda Emerson 49:42
Well, you know what? In business you never lose. You either win or you learn

Max Branstetter 49:50
and there is plenty to learn in win but also to learn from. Thank you so much Melinda for coming on the podcast sharing your tips. hear your stories, your advice, your alliteration and acronyms and all sorts of plays on words. Have my heart. And thank you so much Wild Listeners for tuning in to another episode. If you want to hear more Wild stories like this one, make sure to follow the Wild Business Growth podcast on your favorite app and tell a friend about the podcast and maybe even start a small business with them. That’s that’s probably, you know, pick your order of which of those two you do first. You can also find us on Goodpods where there are fantastic and of course, Goodpods, and for any help with podcast production, you can learn more at MaxPodcasting.com and scroll down on that homepage and sign up for the Podcasting to the Max newsletter. Until next time, let your business run wild – bring on the bongos!