This is the full transcript for Episode #334 of the Wild Business Growth podcast featuring April Wachtel – Cheeky Cocktails, Mixer Mixologist. You can listen to the interview and learn more here. Please note: this transcript is not 100% accurate.
April Wachtel 0:00
What are you going to do with your one wild and precious life?
Max Branstetter 0:18
My precious that was creepy. Welcome back to Wild Business Growth. The creepy version. No, just kidding. Welcome back to Wild Business Growth. This is your place to hear from a new wild entrepreneur every single Wednesday morning turning wild ideas into wild growth. And maybe if you listen closely, you’ll hear Jamie crying in the background. Shouldn’t laugh at that. This is episode 334, and today’s guest is April Wachtel. April is the founder and CEO of cheeky cocktails, the brand of delicious cocktail mixers and syrups and juices that pack a punch. Pack a flavorful punch, a non alcoholic, flavorful punch. In this episode, we talk stories on stories from April’s time as a bartender, how she’s making a name for herself, and cheeky and mixers in the mixer space and beverage space, and the cocktail edition of rapid fire, Q, A, it is April in July. Enjoy the Sure. Alrighty. We’re here with April Wachtel, founder and CEO of cheeky, cheeky cocktails, and we’re going to get very cheeky today, but one of the coolest, most delicious companies ever. It’s funny we keep hearing I have to stop myself, because we we’ve heard the term delicious so often over the past few months about our daughter, Jamie. And I can’t believe I just used it, but I think it’s appropriate for your product as well. April. Thank you. So well. April, thank you so much
April Wachtel 2:03
for joining. How you doing today? I’m well. I’m well. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, of course,
Max Branstetter 2:08
of course. My pleasure. So we’re gonna get into all things cheeky, but before we get into that, you have some Vermont ties I heard about, and actually, you have some very early roots in the hospitality industry. Can you take us to what you were doing in Vermont is in in the hospitable world?
April Wachtel 2:26
Indeed, yes. So I grew up in Vermont. I started my hospitality career there. So I, at the age of ripe old, age of 13, got a job in a family friend’s bed and breakfast. I kid you not, by the way, is swearing okay on this pod, yeah, of course, okay, I shit you not there.
Max Branstetter 2:45
Kid was a little soft.
April Wachtel 2:48
The owners were named Jack and Jill, so it was like the most idyllic of starts. So I was 13, I started doing kind of everything with them. My best friend worked there as well. And we did everything from serving to cooking to chamber mating, and I started learning about, like, what people look for when they go to a bed and breakfast or on vacation. And then a year later, I got recruited as a busser for a restaurant called the four columns in and so that’s where I started learning about sort of more elevated cuisine. And the chefs there took it upon themselves to teach myself and the other young people who worked there about sweet breads and quail and caviar and all these other crazy things. So that was my in my first beginning in hospitality.
Max Branstetter 3:33
Oh, my God, where you were in Vermont. How far was that from? Like Manchester and Dorset? Not
April Wachtel 3:38
far. So, so both of those restaurant and inns, they were in Brookline and in Newfane, so Southern Vermont, probably 40 minutes or so from Manchester.
Max Branstetter 3:50
Okay, awesome, small world. So lots of, I mean, I have a lot of great memories there, but my wife, Dana and her family have like, an unlimited amount of memories there, because her grandparents shout out Steve and Phyllis for many, many years, lived in like Manchester, you know, Dorsett, all those areas around Stratton, and they would go up like, you know, all the year end holidays, they would always be up there. And so, like all Dana’s, like, best memories from growing up are in Vermont, so, very, very cool. And she attempted her best to teach me how to ski up there. I’m very amateur.
April Wachtel 4:21
Well, it’s also, to be honest, though, East Coast very icy, so it’s
Max Branstetter 4:25
really, that’s what I said. That’s why I fell so much. That’s, that’s what I’m
April Wachtel 4:29
saying, though, is you have to dedicate, like you have to really commit to multiple days on your butt, sliding down the mountain before you, before you have anything to work with. So I don’t blame you
Max Branstetter 4:39
totally. And an exceptional state for craft beer, which kind of ties to our conversation, yes, yes, kind of adjacent, but, you know, maybe for another time. So what is you said at the rape, age of 13, before you started helping out there? Did you have any interest in hospitality?
April Wachtel 4:56
Well, there was a brief moment, which actually, this is, this is probably. Probably my actual, like, first glimpse at this one Thanksgiving, a couple of my friends, apparently were volunteering to serve food at at a church in Newfane Vermont. They asked if I’d help, and I was like, this is like, a nice thing to do, so I did as well. And I remember at the end, like, we didn’t get paid again. It was pure volunteer work, but people had left tips, and so at the end, I think we each made $15 and I was like, wow, wow. Like, 12 year old eyes bug out.
Max Branstetter 5:28
Account for inflation. That’s like 15,000
April Wachtel 5:32
Yeah. So that was really, I think, the first moment where I was like, like, food, community, connection, money. Unfortunately, you know, over years, it was not gobs and gobs of money, but it definitely got me interested, and I really felt like I was helping other people connect, and that is something that stayed with me over all these years. So
Max Branstetter 5:56
let’s continue helping others Connect. Let’s get to cheeky cocktails. And first of all, just the name is fun and cheeky and memorable. So you did well there, but really, really cool line of mixers and all sorts of cocktail improving things. We’ll call it that you offer really innovative flavors and designs and branding. So we’ll get to all that. But I guess, what was the biggest thing that you learned back in Vermont or like in the hospitality world, that you think kind of foreshadowed that you would actually start a line of these mixers, non alcoholic stuff one
April Wachtel 6:34
day? That’s a little tough. So, you know, I you hear conversations with entrepreneurs where they say my one aha moment was this. That was not the case for me. This was like the accumulation over many years, over many different jobs, where I figured there had to be something that other people loved, that was an opportunity in the market. I don’t know if you’ve heard the term ikigai, but this is basically the concept where
Max Branstetter 7:00
it’s like, oh yeah, I heard on another podcast. Of course, you’re gonna explain it way better than me. No, that’s
April Wachtel 7:06
okay. It’s so it’s those things. It’s like, what does the world need? What do you like doing? What are uniquely qualified to do, and what can make you money? And so it was kind of over many years where I was looking for my idea, and then again, in my experiences as a bartender, as a manager, as a brand ambassador, as a cocktail instructor, all of those things kind of resulted in like, Oh, this is the area that you’re meant to start a business. You just have to, like, look for the opportunity. It wasn’t a single thing. It was more just like a gradual evolution.
Max Branstetter 7:38
I remember now it was so one of our podcast production clients is a magazine on the west coast called latitude 38 and they have a sailing podcast called good jibes, and they had a guest who named their boat ikigai. And so we like learn the background of that. So I can’t believe it’s come up again. It’s a small world.
April Wachtel 7:56
Good. Well, I think, honestly, I think it’s so important, though, because part of my path to founding my own business was like, I don’t want to get stuck in corporate hell, like I want to, I want to write the story of my life. And I was seeing so many of my friends say, Oh, well, I’m just going to get a corporate job, like, I’m just going to phone it in, because, like, I got to make money, and I also have to make money. But I was like, this can’t be the only way to do it. And so I think, you know, this whole entrepreneurial process, and one of the things that I love about talking to other entrepreneurs too is that you’re meeting people who have looked at ways to craft their story that is outside the norm, and that has to, like, implicitly lean into this concept of ikigai, because if they weren’t making any money, they would not be in business any longer. So here we are, the survivors so
Max Branstetter 8:45
far. Yeah, exactly. And I’m totally from the same mindset. I mean, I started out my career in the corporate world, and learned a ton there, and very grateful for that experience. For a few years, over time, I had this nagging feeling, sensation of like, I feel like I’m living somebody else’s life. Like this is not true to me, like I need to do something more entrepreneurial. And so I figured I would, you know, start a podcast and interview April. This is how we got here today.
April Wachtel 9:12
This was, this was the mission from day one. This was
Max Branstetter 9:15
like, I need to interview her. So I know you had many, we kind of skipped through a lot of steps, but you had many stops in the bartending and Mixology world. What is it about? Like mixers, particularly, that kind of always intrigued you. It wasn’t that it
April Wachtel 9:32
always intrigued me. But as I got deeper and deeper into the craft cocktail and then spirits world, what I noticed is there’s a gazillion different spirits out there. The vast majority of them are high quality. But, for example, when I was teaching my cocktail classes, students would always say, Well, what do I do if I want to, like, outfit my my own home bar? And all the cocktails that I’d teach them had these, you know, ingredients made from scratch. Much like house made syrups and fresh squeezed juices. And so when they’d asked that question, it was easy for me to say, well, choose a vodka, gin, a tequila, whiskey, a blah, blah, blah, buy those. And then when it came to mixers, which are arguably at least as important, if not more so, than the base spirit, there were no products that I could recommend. So it was, it was sort of just like a realization that, like, this whole craft cocktail phenomenon has taken off. People no longer want to settle. They don’t want great cocktails and bars and shitty cocktails at home, you know, like, once they get used to the good stuff, they don’t want to go back. So it was like, Well, how do we do that? Because realistically, millions of consumers are not going to make this stuff from scratch on their own. So it really was just, I feel like, revealed to me, and then it was salient enough for me to be like, Okay, this is worth digging into.
Max Branstetter 10:49
How much research did you do, like, before you started officially turning into a company of, like, the types of mixers and SKUs we’ll call it, to focus on
April Wachtel 10:59
very little. And the reason, I say that, and I don’t, I don’t necessarily recommend that to people, but I I’m, I’m being a little like self deprecating, because those 17 years that I had spent in bars and restaurants, that was the research. You know what people like? You know what cocktails are calling for. You know which ones they want to drink on repeat, versus they’re just going to try it once and never drink it again. And so that really informed the ingredients that I knew that we had to sell in order to get or to achieve the goal that I was trying to achieve, which is, like making craft cocktails accessible to the masses. There’s
Max Branstetter 11:36
so much background there, as far as, like, the things you learn at the bar, anything, things you learn working with people in the cocktail space like that. Can you share like, one of the key insights you learned from that time that looking back has, like, really shaped the direction of cheeky cocktails? Ooh, that’s
April Wachtel 11:51
a good question. One of my biggest insights is that people care very deeply about hosting so it’s yes, the food and drink matters as part of this larger picture of like, people want to take great care of their friends and family, and they also feel very it’s their opportunity to shine, or they feel very judged about it. And so there’s, like, a lot of emotional things that are on the line in these moments of connection, whether it’s at home, where you’re hosting, or in the bar or restaurant. And so that’s something that, you know, is always in the back of my mind, because, you know, ultimately, we want to help people shine, or we want people to feel like really proud of the products that they can share with their friends and family. And so I would say that that’s actually kind of our true north is making sure that the products that we make and the way they’re presented to people meet that need. And I’m not saying that we’re always perfect at it, but we think about it constantly. Well,
Max Branstetter 12:53
I’m going to say you’re always perfect at it, because it’s my job. But
April Wachtel 12:57
okay, I will take it.
Max Branstetter 12:59
Yeah, I know, very controversial, but in looking at, like, your your branding and your site and your SKUs, I didn’t plan to use the word SKU so much today, like it’s really beautiful and like, like, simply beautiful packaging, which I think goes really well with simple syrup, or syrup, however you prefer to say it. I guess you know, from Vermont, you could tell me, I say syrup Perfect. All right, so syrup, no, just guy. So once you started figuring out, like, kind of the direction you were going in terms of what you would offer, what went into the branding and kind of like that clean, you know, bright, feel that you have,
April Wachtel 13:37
all right, well, there’s some context that I need to share here that will definitely unless people, unless people are like, have been intimately following my every move for 10 years, they would not know this.
Max Branstetter 13:46
So that sounds just creepy. Yeah, I’m gonna go ahead
April Wachtel 13:49
with zero of your listeners would have done that. Okay, so before cheeky, I actually ran another mixer company for four and a half ish years. It was called swig and swallow, and I kind of like to say it was like a shittier version of what we do today,
Max Branstetter 14:03
which is honestly more founders should say that about their their previous startup, that’s awesome.
April Wachtel 14:08
It was a really good product, but there were, I mean, there’s still so many things that I just don’t understand yet about the decisions that people make when they purchase these things, how they feel when they’re using them. Like I feel like I’m a student of this, of this entrepreneurial journey, but we had a lot of things wrong with that. First business branding was a huge part of that, meaning that was one of the major things that we really got wrong. So I think initially, my initial belief at the beginning of swig and swallow was like, if you make a high quality product that tastes phenomenal, the masses will come. That was not true, as I found out over the course of four and a half years. So in 2019 I had this sort of Epiphany, which was like, this thing is just not working. Swig and swallow is just not working. It should have gotten more traction. By this point. We need to, like, make a huge, like, major overhaul. So in that process. I literally deconstructed everything about the products and the brand name and the branding and the route to market and all that stuff.
Max Branstetter 15:08
Did you deconstruct the cocktails as well? Actually, yeah. Because
April Wachtel 15:11
no, I mean, I know you’re being I know you’re joking, but like, actually, yes, that is one of the things that happened, which was where they were previously, like, fully mixed, Margarita mixes, Cosmo, Mojito, et cetera, and now we make the syrups and juices that go into those cocktails so they are actually deconstructed. But so anyway, one of the things that I knew we needed to get right from the start was branding. And so actually I invested in, I tried to work with a few different agencies. Everything they were coming back with was like too cluttered or too childish, or it just wasn’t right. And then, lo and behold, as I’m waiting for one of those agencies to give another revision, which was going to be at least a month or two COVID hits. And so COVID hits, I am forced to make all these decisions about what the label is going to be, what the products are going to be, what bottle size it’s gonna be all that stuff. And so I did everything from designing the first packaging, inclusive of the full label, the SKU mix, so the different initial products that we launched with the website, the photography, the fulfillment, I personally was hand sanitizing every single piece of citrus and juicing it myself, because, again, it was lockdown. And so nobody could be in the same place. So long story short is this was, as I kind of just like thought very rapidly at that time, like what really communicates, like what I want to communicate, which is, like, this is a high end product that can be paired and complements premium spirits or like a fancy back bar, but doesn’t steal thunder from the other products. The net result was just simple, clean and a prioritization on the logo and emphasis on the name, like a recognizable logo, logo for cheeky. That was the process
Max Branstetter 16:59
in terms of prioritization as well, which is tough to spell out all those words. I didn’t even say that right. Spell out all those words, you see how challenging it is. You’ve had to prioritize what syrups and juices you actually choose as part of your offering or as part of your assortment as well. And you kind of hinted earlier that, like, there are so many different potential cocktails around the world. Like we, if, you know, if you were just gonna sit there and rattle them off, we’d be here for five, six years straight, yeah, if you were to list all of them. So, like, if you look at your offering today again, it’s like, really clean, and it’s really like, you know, you know, you kind of have the main ones that you offer. And I think for anybody like me who’s a fan of cocktails, but not like, you know, I have very limited experience, like making them myself. There’s kind of the main mixers and juices that you’d expect there. But also you have some really, like, creative outside the box ones as well. How to Date, have you been able to kind of refine what you actually offer and find like the mix that’s working for your customers.
April Wachtel 18:06
The initial SKUs that I wanted to launch, they were like all the highest volume or most called for most required ingredients in the top cocktails in the world. So if you actually look at our product line right now, our 10 flavors, well, it should be nine flavors, but we have one Limited Edition that’s that’s live right now. So 10 flavors you can use to make 30 of the top 50 cocktails globally, plus, obviously, hundreds of 1000s of signature cocktails as well. So these are the core ingredients. So let 100% lemon and lime juice that’s shelf stable, but no additives or preservatives of any kind. One to one simple syrup, two to one honey syrup, three to one agave syrup, etc. So there’s those. And then the reason that we have more complex ones, like our best selling espresso syrup and decaf espresso syrup, our hot honey, our cranberry lemon syrup for cosmos. The reason that we’ve got those products is because I started thinking like curious to know if our customer is our artisanal or are they like, which elements are resonating with them about the brand. And I think that every brand owner should be doing a ton of testing about, like, the way that we’re doing this too. So we’ll, we’ll launch a bunch of different products, like the espresso or, like, we launched a salted Marcona almond or shot, and then the hot honey, and, yeah, and all these different products to kind of test the boundaries of, like, what’s appealing, what’s unappealing, what price point is too high, what’s too low, etc. And then the best performers just stick around. So that’s it. Yeah. In a nutshell,
Max Branstetter 19:44
you’re doing sounds like constant testing and learning as far as innovation and all that. Yes, yeah. I mean, you’re really pioneering, in a way, in terms of, like, a brand of these different types of mixers and juices together, like, you know, I just think about kind of what you were saying before. Of how you know, even in your own experience as a bartender, like people would ask you at the start how to make certain cocktails, it’s like, you have to buy all these different things and like, they’re all different brands, and probably a lot of them are in different parts of the store, or liquor store, wherever they are. Like, you’ve really consolidated it in the best way. But of course, that comes with, like, a huge uphill battle, as far as you know, educating consumers and like, kind of carving out your own space there. What do you think has worked well? Or maybe you can even share if there’s something that hasn’t worked well, pioneering and like spearheading your own space for a brand here.
April Wachtel 20:38
Well, they often say that, you know, the first mover does not always win. Oftentimes, it’s the second mover who learns on all the failures of the first to
Max Branstetter 20:50
grow and succeed, right? Which is grateful I’m I’m slow moving on everything, so I’m naturally not first mover.
April Wachtel 20:56
Perfect. That’s, I mean, listen, that actually is probably a secret advantage for real, because you don’t have to fail on your own dime. Yeah, um, but, um, but no. I mean, listen, we are definitely not the first people to make syrups and juices, obviously. However, I do think that what we offer is a is quite distinct from all of our competitors, because, again, of the various nuances besides product quality and like the complete lack of preservatives, even natural quote, unquote, flavorings, all those things, there’s the benefit of being able to purchase all these products together to understand that they were all created with a mixologist in mind, but also simplified enough so any consumer can literally infer based on the product, like, some ideas of how to use it. So, like, people can figure out how to use a product that says lime juice on it, or that says espresso syrup on it. So, like, all of that was sort of part and parcel of, like, the how do we make this really simple for our customers? I think to your question, which I think was more about, like, we have a lot of SKUs and we’re testing and like, in some degree, that’s not been done before in a specific way. You know, I think that it typically is obvious when you have a product that adds benefit, whether it’s branding or revenue, and you can elect to lean into those products more, get the customer feedback on that, and then use that learning to build into the rest of your strategy. But of course, there’s a ton of failure in this, and there’s a reason that we retire products too. Is it’s like, maybe it’s a great product, but the buyers, it’s like, 1% of our normal customer base, so we’re not going to continue making it. So it’s just a lot of testing and learning. Basically,
Max Branstetter 22:43
yeah, get your testing hat on. What’s been like, the most surprising thing that you’ve learned from your customers so far you didn’t know going in? Well,
April Wachtel 22:54
this is part customers, part just like the current social media environment that we’re in. I think founders always feel like I’ve said this one thing 45 times, people are gonna be sick of it. Guess what? 99% of your customers have never heard you say it once. And so I think that I often feel like I’m at a loss of what to say about our product line, because I’m like, well, it’s so obvious, you know, like we’ve been saying this for 400 years, and it’s like no, no. People really are very busy in their lives. They are not focused on again, following your every move, and you need to make sure that you are hammering home your product attributes, why they should care, and how to use it like constantly. So that’s something that, like, I always need to remind myself of because it’s so easy to forget.
Max Branstetter 23:42
Yeah, that’s spot on. And to get real meta, like a lot of people listening to this, it might be their first time hearing about your company to begin with. So it’s like you have to to your point as an entrepreneur, you have to have your I hate that term, but elevator pitch ready at all times. And that’s that’s a good idea, is just kind of remind yourself to focus on, like, your key attributes, whether it is a product or a service. But you have wonderful products, and you’ve had great growth over the years as far as distribution and branding and all that. If you had to pick like, one big thing that has most driven the growth, what a beautiful sentence over the years of cheeky what would that top thing
April Wachtel 24:22
be? I mean, this is going to sound terrible, but honestly, COVID, like we we listen, it was, obviously it was, it was, it was a terrible event for the world. And, you know, we all suffered in a range of ways through it. And it’s a very serious thing, obviously, also I would be completely dishonest if I said it didn’t help us, because the timing of launching into March of 2021, of the hardest thing, or probably the hardest thing, about a new brand or a new company, is breaking through the crazy. Z amount of clutter there exists to go from from obsolescence to people knowing about you. So the fact that we had so much inbound because of the timing, I mean, that probably saved us, like five years in terms of, like, just growth trajectory. Now that being said, Of course, it was also terrible again, for so many reasons, one of which is, like, we couldn’t actually have any staff at the facility for months, and we couldn’t, you know, like there were all these other issues. But I think that I would be a fool to say that we didn’t benefit from the exposure in that time.
Max Branstetter 25:36
Oh, totally. And it’s, I mean, it’s probably one of the things that you end up talking about a lot. And, you know, the obviously, with so many overwhelming negatives of it, it’s probably, you’re like, Oh my God, here we go again, where I have to, like, kind of give the disclaimer every time I talk about it, but yeah, unbelievable timing you had. And I remember, you know, not even just tied to your company specifically, but just overall, the trends of like, people were never doing happy hours at home until then. Like, like, there was just so much, you know, like the family zoom happy hours and cocktails like that. Like, it was just an incredible time where people started to get into drinking at home and Mixology and everything like that. Also the growing trend of people doing mocktails instead of cocktails. And like, you’re right there as well. But obviously that was a huge macro trend. We’ll call it. I always forget headwind, tailwind for your business. But I would also argue that you and team like you, you had, and maybe you were the team at that point you had everything like ready to like you were prepared for that success, or you’re prepared to battle for that success, and, you know, meet it as demand and meet people’s needs in that crazy, crazy time. So I just can’t get over that time in blue.
April Wachtel 26:49
Yeah, yeah.
Max Branstetter 26:54
Let’s switch gears a little bit. I love hearing from founders more about like, what you’re like as a person, what you’re like as an entrepreneur, not as much like in the business stuff as well, and just from doing so much research and prep, and as you mentioned, stalking you, you’re every move. For the past 10 years, I learned that you’re just an incredible entrepreneur, and I heard somebody refer to you as a student of entrepreneurship, like you really take the time to study and learn and work on, we’ll call it the fundamentals of entrepreneurship. But from your standpoint, I’m curious on, like, the inspiration and creativity side. So from the inspiration side, like, what’s kind of like your your process for, like, learning as an entrepreneur, like, what sort of people or materials or things do you take in that you think kind of helps you on your craft? Well,
April Wachtel 27:40
this is going to be a perfect pitch for your business, actually, just teeing it up, yeah, no, I love podcasts like podcasts are one of my major sources of inspiration and and resources. So I listen to a handful of podcasts while I’m doing a million other things. So you know, whether I’m driving or biking or on the subway or working out or whatever it may be, nine times out of 10 I’m listening to a podcast, and this is going to make me sound like a total freak. I don’t care, but most of the time it’s on like a 1.25 to 1.5x speed.
Max Branstetter 28:18
Oh, that’s not total. I thought you’re going to say like, three times speed. I’ve heard of people doing that as well.
April Wachtel 28:23
Well, it depends, it depends on the pace that the the people speak at. Obviously,
Max Branstetter 28:27
yeah, oh, for me, you could do that. Okay, yeah, no, cuz, you know,
April Wachtel 28:31
slow. But if you’re trying to learn fast, you know, you got to have it fast. So, so that’s a, that’s a major one. So I ingest a lot of information that way, I also feel like just general immersion is, like the only way that I learn immersion and like experiential learning. So like, for example, I did this major Deep Dive. I’ve been listening to Alex hermosis podcast called the game a lot recently. He does a lot on, like, just high level to, like tactical and technical ways to scale your business, you know, into the hundreds of millions of dollars. So I’ve learned a ton from him. I probably listened to over 20 hours of his podcast on, like, funnel building. And then I took those learnings when I felt like I had, like, a baseline understanding, and then I did a whole, like, deep dive online, looking for all these different resources, like, what software is best for, like, building marketing funnels. You know how, like, actually, how that interacts with organic social media, blah, blah, blah, conversions, leads, offers, yada, yada yada. So, like, that’s an example where I, like, I took something where, like, I just learned the baseline stuff via podcast, and then I just did a deep dive and started working with the software to, like, get myself fully kind of up to speed.
Max Branstetter 29:44
Yeah, I have always been thinking like, there’s been no better time if you want to learn something, like, if you want to just learn something on your own by your own drive, or whatever. Like, obviously, you and I are biased that podcasts are an incredible way of learning. Thing, but,
April Wachtel 30:00
well, so are all your listeners, I’m sure, yeah, of course,
Max Branstetter 30:04
in between YouTube and online courses and just Googling or chat, GPT or whatever your preferred AI search, it’s endless the amount of information at our fingertips. And I think the vast majority of us often get in that trap of, like, getting stuck on something, and it takes a little while to be like, just, like, look it up or go, you know, it’s like, you can, I like that word you said, immersion. Like you can immerse yourself in so much. You can also immerse yourself in cheeky cocktails. But, yeah, you have to pitch my business. I had to pitch yours. But it’s such a great time for that. By the way, your pitch about, as you said, it was for my business. I think some of those examples you shared are literally from a paragraph I have on your site and Max podcasting. So you really did well about listening in the car and the train and all that on the podcast. Note, not that we’re fans of podcasts, but besides the one you mentioned, what are some like your all time favorite podcast in terms of ones that have inspired you, whether inside or outside of work,
April Wachtel 31:05
how I built this is my absolute favorite. And this is going, this is basically a humble brag I got on it the other
Max Branstetter 31:12
day. No way like I just got it
April Wachtel 31:15
well, I was in an episode. So they have this whole they launched this advice line segment where, like, one of the established entrepreneurs comes back, and then with Guy Roz the host, they give advice to somebody at an earlier stage. So I got on it. Wow,
Max Branstetter 31:32
congrats.
April Wachtel 31:34
No, I was fan going so hard, like, oh no. This is, like, bucket list, bucket list. And it actually, it was really, it was really helpful advice that they gave me. It was guy, and then Peter Ray Hall from RX bar, and now David bar. And it was just, it was just really, very cool. But anyway, I love, love, love all of guy’s work, how he built this is incredible. I love the Gary Vee podcast. You know, he is a very, very observant, intelligent person. You know, it’s not for every mood, nor is any podcast, but I love it. If you want to get fired up, he has you covered, yeah, but, but he’s like, so, like, even just his kind of more recent stuff about how, you know, social media is, we’re now in the era of interest media, where it’s like, you can post a single piece of content, and that piece of content is going to find the right people. So it’s no longer about you about building up a huge accumulation of followers. It’s about the individual piece of content. I don’t think I would have figured that out on my own, and so now that I hear it 1000 times from him with such conviction, that’s the sort of thing that really helps me grow. So those are my I would say those two, in addition to Alex hermosis the game. Those are my top three. But there’s, like, a lot of other ones, like, I love the moth true stories, like an OG one, yeah, oh, gee, oh, my god, it’s so good. I love, well, I used to listen to a lot of on being which is like much more, like big questions, like big philosophical questions. And I love, I love that one. So I think those are my top five ish,
Max Branstetter 33:01
well, we got a listening, a queue queued up for you, by the way, your so your appearance on how I built this. What’s the best way for somebody to find it like if they search your name? Will that come up? Or is it like a specific
April Wachtel 33:12
it might, I think it might. If not, it’s the advice line episode with Peter Rahal. It was maybe two months ago, a month ago, something like that. So like April or May, April 2025,
Max Branstetter 33:23
wow, this. Yeah, very surreal. Let’s get so really rapid fire. We’re gonna wrap it up with some rapid fire. Q, A, you ready for this? Yeah, ready? All right, and this is like a special twist. This is like an all cocktail slash mixologist version of rapid fire. So all right, let’s get wild. Let’s get cheeky. Actually, let’s get cheeky. If you were a cocktail, what would your this sounds wrong, what would your cocktail consist of? What ingredients would be in a cocktail if this was like, this is the April cocktail.
April Wachtel 33:56
Ooh. So I love bitter. So I really want to say Negroni but I’m not a bitter person. I love Negronis. Actually, I love Negronis. I love, love, love Negronis.
Max Branstetter 34:06
Polarizing. But yeah, they are, yeah,
April Wachtel 34:09
and I don’t, I think that generally, as a human, I don’t think I’m really polarizing. I think I’m more kind of go with the flow. I don’t know. That’s what I think about myself. I don’t know, but, but I think, I think one that’s probably a little bit more accurate, is maybe like a pineapple daiquiri and not like a fruity fill, like frilly one, I mean, like a shaken Daiquiri. So rum lime, simple with a little dash of fresh pineapple is, I think, because I think it’s like, it’s like simple but serious, but also like a little fun. I’m not room for a
Max Branstetter 34:41
little we gotta keep room for a little fun in there. So Exactly, exactly. All right, what would be your dream place to like be working behind a bar? Like, what would your dream view as you mix a cocktail be?
April Wachtel 34:53
Ooh, this is a really tough one. I’m not prepared to answer this. I would say somewhere. That’s like, half mountain, half ocean. Oh, so, like, I, like, I was a teenager, I went to New Zealand, and they were like, amazing, like, mountain scapes behind and, like, stunning water views on the other side. So something like that, where it’s like, beautiful nature, but like, not rugged.
Max Branstetter 35:19
So Dana’s cousin Jared and his wife, Jill, the time of this recording, are on their honeymoon, and it’s like a mix of Norway and Denmark. And in Norway, they did like all the fjords and all their Instagram stories that showed the beautiful water with the giant mountains next to it. It’s like, you’re right. That is, like a perfect combination. It’s just, oh my God. Just like, relax about it. Yeah. So, yeah, so, yeah. So that’d be fun to mix a cocktail with it. How about non alcoholic? What would you say if somebody is either, like, done with alcohol or, I think the term was super curious, what is like a good mocktail to start with that is, like, you don’t need alcohol on this. It’s tasty.
April Wachtel 35:55
I have two sort of complimentary views on this. One is like, just using cheeky as the lens. For this, you can make the same cocktails with cheeky and a non elk spirit as you can with cheeky and foolproof spirits. So if somebody wants to start off with something familiar, like a margarita, they absolutely can replicate and make a non elk version. On the other hand, if somebody says, Hey, I just want to, like, unleash my creativity, taste the ingredients, like whatever, four or five ingredients independently, and then come up with something totally novel that has no connection to a real cocktail, that’s also like a perfectly exciting and accessible way to go about it. So I really am an advocate for, like, whatever you want to do that, like, again, meets your need. But if you’re somebody who wants, like, a little familiarity, starting with any of the classics just made with whatever cheeky or whatever ingredients you have, and non ALK spirits is, I think, a great
Max Branstetter 36:55
way to go. And this, obviously, I’m assuming you can do this with cheeky as well, but in just in general, what is a cocktail that, if somebody wants to make it home and, like, really, really impress their friends, but like, like, behind the scenes, it’s not that complicated. Yeah, what’s what would be a good example that? Well, it’s gonna depend on your friends. Depends. How would you say how artisanal, artisanal they are? Well,
April Wachtel 37:19
yeah. I mean, because, because, again, there’s different people with different standards. I what I what I would say. I’m going to give you, like, a sort of sideways answer to this, yeah, sure. I actually think the way to impress the friends is maybe by making the thing at least once before you serve it to them. And here’s why. What I’ve noticed from all the students that I’ve ever taught how to make cocktails, people have a tendency to follow the instructions, but not necessarily taste the individual ingredients on their own, unless it’s recommended. So the best way to understand how these ingredients are going to combine is by tasting them individually and then making the baseline recipe and then adjusting it to your preferences. So that is, I think, a beautiful way to say, Okay, I endorse this thing. This is well balanced to my palette, but then also offer people, like, if you want to add a little dash, so, like, let’s just say we’re making a classic Margarita, or Tommy’s Margarita with tequila, or non octaquila, you know, cheeky lime, cheeky agave. There’s a lot of ways that you can adapt it to their palate and customize it for those guests. So you could say, oh, like, add a raspberry and muddle it to make it incorporate berry flavor, or add a dash of spice, or, like, you know, muddle a jalapeno in there. Or so, there’s so many ways that you can adapt it. So everybody feels like they have a unique thing. So that’s actually my sideways recommendation.
Max Branstetter 38:39
I appreciate it in any way, anyways, but so that reminds me of Tim Ferriss. I know you’re Tim Ferriss fan as well, and I’m reading the, well, I’m reading very slowly. I should be reading it on three times speed, The Four Hour Chef, just like, you know, kind of like an older Tim Ferriss book right now, but like, just when I have a spare few minutes, it’s really, really interesting. But like, early on, he talks about, like, if you want to get good at cooking and experimenting with, like, the different types of ingredients and how much to use, like, try to just like everything you eat, try to just take a moment while it’s in your mouth and think through, like, what are these flavors? Where are these flavors coming from? Like, where the Oh, is that rosemary, like, oh, that’s salt. You know, what’s causing this spice? Or, like, umami flavor. And so that’s like, exactly what you were saying from the cocktail standpoint. So I think practice and experimentation, and I mean, it really flows through the examples you share with your company, like testing and learning that same thing applies to making
April Wachtel 39:36
cocktails as well, totally. And can I actually share one more example? Yeah, sure.
Max Branstetter 39:39
I know one and a half speed.
April Wachtel 39:43
So, so here’s another thing that I would teach all of my all of my students making cocktails. So one of the classes that I would teach was really, it was like to how to unleash your own creativity. And it really is just saying, like, there’s no, quote, unquote, right way that you have to do it. This is about what your preferences are. But what’s really important there. Is, like any experiment, you really kind of want to have a control and then different iterations. So for example, when I would try to or not try, when I would teach people how to use citrus twists in their cocktails, I would say, Okay, in this cocktail, let’s just say we’re going to make a yeah, let’s just use the margarita again. We’re going to make a margarita and we’re going to use a citrus twist to add additional aroma and flavor. And so what we would do is we’d make one drink, and then so one Margarita, then we’d split it out over like four different little cups. One, you leave ungarnished. One, you put a lemon twist on where you express the oils over the surface of the drink. You rub the oil on the rim of the glass, and then you drop it in. So one’s with lemon, ones with orange, ones with lime and ones with grapefruit, and then you can see how much that affects the flavor of the cocktail itself. So I think that that’s the sort of thing where, like, a tiny, tiny iteration makes a huge difference, but you wouldn’t know unless you tried them side by side. Yeah,
Max Branstetter 40:56
and that’s so fun. It’s like when people try back to food, clearly, I’m hungry right now when it’s like some of those random combinations, like, what is it like, prosciutto and melon, like, some of those random combinations that, if you just slightly twist it, or, what was it in Italy? Oh, they did a little bit of balsamic on ice cream, like, stuff like that is like, oh, it’s amazing combination. So simple to test them totally. All right, last one, I’ve been dying to know this, because it has to be so fascinating. As a bartender, it’s just keep going back to your bartender experience. What is the wildest thing you’ve either seen or heard while attending a bar? Ooh,
April Wachtel 41:37
wildest thing. Hold on a second. Let me just scroll through like, 13 years of experiences. Well, this was, this is like I was not actually bartending this evening, but this is probably the strangest thing that ever happened to me. I was the bar manager at this restaurant that’s now closed. It was called the gallows in the south end of Boston, and one night I was managing, and the construction of the space was such that the bar was in the front, right near the door, and then there was a stairway in the front that goes down to the kitchen. And then if you go all the way to the back of the restaurant, to where the restrooms are, there’s another stairway that goes to the back of the kitchen. So long story short is I’m observing the floor. I’m not behind the bar. And this guy comes in, he’s well dressed, but he’s clearly not with anybody. He’s just kind of standing there and, and I’m like, Huh, that’s funny. Fast forward to later, as we look at all of the footage in the restaurant. Later, he went to the back of the restaurant, went down the stairs, snuck into the office, and mind you, there’s like us, like I personally walked out of the office. Then he walked into the office, and then he broke into the safe, took some things, including my wallet, from the office. Took off and then later came back. Craw Bard opened the back door of the restaurant and stole the physical safe out of the back. Oh, my God. It was a what. And mind you, this was not like, this was not like a terrible neighborhood. This was like, very well heeled, like, brownstones and this and that. But that was probably the most bizarre thing that I’ve ever seen in replay, because it was like, you have that gut feeling for a second where you’re like, Well, this is something’s amiss. And then it’s like, Oh, guess what? He just craw barred open the back door. Took, you know, 150 pound thing. You
Max Branstetter 43:30
sure that wasn’t just them filming the movie the town.
April Wachtel 43:32
It was not, it was not, but it was wild. And then, actually, funny enough, we actually found out that same crime of stealing the safe had happened at the location. I think it was two times before that. It’s just it had never, yeah, in previous restaurant, it was wild. I mean, there’s all this wild stuff that happens, but that one was very strange.
Max Branstetter 43:50
Well, I’m glad that you were safe and everybody else was safe, and that like, Oh my God, it was a lot of, yeah. There’s a lot of not good people out there. Well, yeah, April, thank you so much. We’ll end on that wild note. No seriously, thank you so much. Just absolutely love what you’re doing with cheeky cocktails, and really appreciate your time and stories and lessons. I know if anybody wants to try out cheeky cocktails, they can learn more and try out anything at CheekyCocktails.co CEO, is that how you say it? CO CEO, yes, exactly. And where’s the best place if they want to connect with you online?
April Wachtel 44:23
Best is probably LinkedIn. That’s I’m very active over there. My personal Instagram doesn’t have that much. I mean, it’s like me lifting weights and climbing rocks and stuff like that. But I met cheeky, Oh, that’s fun. @CheekyApril on Instagram, and obviously we’re @CheekyCocktails everywhere on the
Max Branstetter 44:39
socials. Yeah. No one wants to pay just me doing really cool stuff. So like, all right. And last thing, final thoughts, if you had like a quote or word to live by, whatever you want, just one line, send us home here.
April Wachtel 44:53
I hope I Don’t misquote this, but it’s the Mary Oliver quote, which is, what are you going to do with your one wild and precious life?
Max Branstetter 45:03
Wild! Thank you April for coming on Wild Business Growth, sharing the cheeky story, and thank you wild listeners for tuning in to another episode. If you want to hear more wild stories like this one, make sure to follow wild business growth on your favorite podcast app and subscribe on YouTube. YouTube is @MaxBranstetter, you can learn more about podcast production, the Podcasting to the Max newsletter and this podcast at MaxPodcasting.com and until next time, Let your business Run Wild…Bring on the Bongos!!
